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Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

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Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#21

Post by malka1986 »

Cheer2171 wrote: post #19
mafriese wrote: post #5

I am still torn on this issue. On the one hand, it feels like a copyright violation when other people's works are used to train an ML model. On the other hand, it is not a copyright infringement if I paint a picture in the Studio Ghibli style myself. The question is whether removing a ‘skill requirement’ for replication is sufficient grounds to determine a violation.

It is absolutely infringement if you paint a picture in Ghibli style. You just have fair use to infringe in a personal, noncommercial, educational, etc. purpose. Fair use is a defense to infringement, like self defense is a defense to homicide. If you infringe but are noncommercial, it is more likely to be ruled fair use. If Disney did a Ghibli style ripoff for their next movie, that is clearly not fair use. OpenAI i…

> It is absolutely infringement if you paint a picture in Ghibli style.

Only if you copy their characters. If you make your own character and story, and are replicating ghibli style, it is OK. Style is not copyrightable.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#22

Post by wizzwizz4 »

pizza234 wrote: post #7
signa11 wrote: post #2

to paraphrase: You wouldn't steal a handbag. You wouldn't steal a television. You wouldn't steal a DVD. Downloading someone's content for AI training is stealing. Stealing is a crime. really, really happy that someone is calling out data-harvesting for what it really is.

This issue is not black and white. It is accepted, within limits, for humans do transformative work, but it's not been yet established which the limits for AIs are, primarily (IMO): 1. whether the work is transformative or not 2. whether the scale of transformation/distribution changes the nature of the work.

Embedding other people's work in a vector space, then sampling from the distribution at a different point in the vector space, is not a central member of the "transformative" category. The justifications for allowing transformative uses do not apply to it.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#23

Post by ekianjo »

blibble wrote: post #15
awakeasleep wrote: post #8

To me, it was a tasteless and awful act, but not illegal. Anyone else see that distinction?

willful commercial copyright infringement at scale is a felony

Traiñing models is not copyright infrigement

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#24

Post by energy123 »

sim7c00 wrote: post #16
awakeasleep wrote: post #8

To me, it was a tasteless and awful act, but not illegal. Anyone else see that distinction?

nice opinion. now base it on laws and regulations that apply to these companies and show whether it is actually legal or not... - this is not a realm of feelings.

But there's a related question of what the law ought to be, regardless of whether or not it's currently illegal, which is where feelings do come in. In the case of a new technology colliding with old laws, this is the most important discussion to have.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#26

Post by conception »

Cheer2171 wrote: post #19
mafriese wrote: post #5

I am still torn on this issue. On the one hand, it feels like a copyright violation when other people's works are used to train an ML model. On the other hand, it is not a copyright infringement if I paint a picture in the Studio Ghibli style myself. The question is whether removing a ‘skill requirement’ for replication is sufficient grounds to determine a violation.

It is absolutely infringement if you paint a picture in Ghibli style. You just have fair use to infringe in a personal, noncommercial, educational, etc. purpose. Fair use is a defense to infringement, like self defense is a defense to homicide. If you infringe but are noncommercial, it is more likely to be ruled fair use. If Disney did a Ghibli style ripoff for their next movie, that is clearly not fair use. OpenAI i…

You can’t copyright a style, e.g look at the fashion industry.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#27

Post by specproc »

elzbardico wrote: post #13
amelius wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Showing me ads is stealing too, by the way.

No. bad analogy.

Stealing my time and attention. Much more bothered about advertising in my face than IP infringement.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#28

Post by zwnow »

pizza234 wrote: post #7
signa11 wrote: post #2

to paraphrase: You wouldn't steal a handbag. You wouldn't steal a television. You wouldn't steal a DVD. Downloading someone's content for AI training is stealing. Stealing is a crime. really, really happy that someone is calling out data-harvesting for what it really is.

This issue is not black and white. It is accepted, within limits, for humans do transformative work, but it's not been yet established which the limits for AIs are, primarily (IMO): 1. whether the work is transformative or not 2. whether the scale of transformation/distribution changes the nature of the work.

Any type of art is inspired by the art of others. Its the simplicity in which you now can generate "art" which is the issue. Stealing artists work while also making it harder than ever for them to make a living is a deeply ethical issue. AI "artists" and "art" disgust me. Its a skill you build over your whole life, taking the shortcut because you're unwilling to learn the craft is deeply insulting to real artists. Good thing traditional art is still somewhat safe from this. Thankfully, this is making it easier to leave highly addicting online platforms as I boycott AI content of any form.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#29

Post by blibble »

ekianjo wrote: post #23
blibble wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

willful commercial copyright infringement at scale is a felony

Traiñing models is not copyright infrigement

that remains to be seen

and especially outside of the united states

most countries have no concept of "fair use" whatsoever

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#30

Post by dzink »

Human learning is transformative. It takes time. Time, not money, is the criteria for value to human life. Humans can re-draw in styles they see and the law sees it as transformative work. Humans draw conclusions from learning and apply it to other fields - that’s natural intelligence. If AI helps humans make more new, transformative work, not the same characters as the studios, not the same plots, then the studio should not try to rent-extract. Otherwise someone will try to do it to stick figures and any other style and you’d have to teach toddlers rules for any stile before you give them a crayon. The only real impact will be that hype and styles “in fashion” will just play out faster and in the mean time the Studios get their name sealed in human minds for anything done in their style - which is more immortality than abuse.
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