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Why AC is cheap, but AC repair is a luxury

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Re: Why AC is cheap, but AC repair is a luxury

#11

Post by danans »

korhojoa wrote: post #8
cake-rusk wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An AC is a heat pump too.

I don't know what the deal is about people saying heat pumps are expensive. They used to be a little pricier than AC units, but it's just a 4-way valve in addition to one. I just looked it up, and I can buy a heat pump for 200-400 euros (depending on desired output), installation is ~400 euros. Why are you paying 20-30x for something identical? This sounds like a price difference created by government behavior, like…

> This sounds like a price difference created by government behavior

It's a price difference created by market segmentation of heat pumps as a luxury product in the US, and the relative lack of qualified installers due to our under-investment in education in the trades.

Re: Why AC is cheap, but AC repair is a luxury

#12

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

chemotaxis wrote: post #7

That's a lot of economic theorizing, but to me, it doesn't seem to be substantiated all that well. You can just as well argue that labor is getting more expensive in the West because of two non-market pressures. First, we have a multitude of government programs that seek to eliminate extreme poverty, so there are fewer people who are desperate to take any job for any money. Second, you have consumer protection polici…

> First, we have a multitude of government programs that seek to eliminate extreme poverty,

Clarification: In some places we absolutely do. In others we absolutely do not.

> so there are fewer people who are desperate to take any job for any money.

I think is is better reflective: There is huge surplus of employers have that set up systems that insure they do not hire qualified people. Job portals that auto-trash applications from unwanted applicants (1st time, most minimal of crim rec, wrong zip codes) are one massive example.

source: me+kids spent a decade in red state, hunger-level poverty. kids who got zero replies during months/years of entry level job apps.

Re: Why AC is cheap, but AC repair is a luxury

#14

Post by mlsu »

Lots of people do all kinds of things that are not explicitly written down at their jobs. Those things cannot be tokenized, they cannot be taken in by AI no matter how intelligent and sophisticated it gets. They are judgement calls, made by real people, who think harder and bring more to the table than any machine, no matter how many FLOPS.

But, nonetheless, those jobs will probably disappear, and the machine will reorganize itself to maximize its self-legibility, making tons more money but becoming yet more shitty and inhumane in the process. Discarding the whole reason the jobs exist in the first place (stuff like Value and Service — oh excuse me, sorry, meaningless cost centers to be optimized).

Sort of like how Radiologists do all kinds of important shit, that gets entirely hand waved away in this think-piece as 99% automatable. Yeah, sure guys, the radiologist — actual doctors for fucks sake — I’m sure he is nothing but a warm body between the patient and the computer, signing paperwork and collecting cheques.

Re: Why AC is cheap, but AC repair is a luxury

#15

Post by aeonfox »

chemotaxis wrote: post #7

That's a lot of economic theorizing, but to me, it doesn't seem to be substantiated all that well. You can just as well argue that labor is getting more expensive in the West because of two non-market pressures. First, we have a multitude of government programs that seek to eliminate extreme poverty, so there are fewer people who are desperate to take any job for any money. Second, you have consumer protection polici…

> eliminate extreme poverty, so there are fewer people who are desperate to take any job for any money

One way to eliminate extreme poverty and increase skilled labour, is to ensure children have enough nutrition, health, schooling, and funds to pursue skilled worked in adult life, which usually involves making time outside of work, adequate health, some prerequisite education, and a sufficient financial buffer to actually upskill.

A second thing is Baumol's Cost Disease. If there are other industries that are more rewarding that require less effort, no-one is going to pursue those options. Why be a clever guy who makes a product (or becomes a HVAC repairer, electrician, etc.) when you can get a comfy job at a FAANG (or whatever the acronym is today). You could sub in benefits here, but I don't think people are thriving on benefits in the US. But I'm an outsider, so I wouldn't know.

But there's also a secret third thing that people don't often consider, which is the culture. If there's a culture that doesn't privilege working hard, or educational attainment, etc., people won't seek those things.

Re: Why AC is cheap, but AC repair is a luxury

#16

Post by hexbin010 »

bradlys wrote: post #9
harikb wrote: post #3

There is a simpler explanation - HVAC jobs are directly influenced by the push to covert everything to heat-pumps. And good heat-pumps are expensive . So when you install a $15K to $25K, installation fee also goes up. I am surprised Solar isn't up there. Panels are cheap, install is what we pay for 10 years+

It's not even that. It's that rich people are the only thing the trades are catering to now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT_uSJVCYds Example of a solar install that was under $20k via DIY - maybe took this guy 1-2 weeks of full-time work. But he was quoted $90k and he did most of it himself - only hiring a backhoe operator to move some dirt around. We're at the point where the trades are only going to cater to ri…

> It's that rich people are the only thing the trades are catering to now.

This is my gut feeling too. I've known so many rich people who just accept whatever number a tradesperson quotes. There is no way that hasn't had a mass effect

Re: Why AC is cheap, but AC repair is a luxury

#17

Post by nl »

This is a very interesting piece. I'd never heard of "Baumol’s Cost Disease" but I think the thing it is appliesd to most often here in Australia is coffee.

Everyone complains that it is $7 for a cup of coffee, and yet demand for barrista coffee keeps increasing and demand for barristas keeps increasing.

Re: Why AC is cheap, but AC repair is a luxury

#18

Post by [deleted] »

bradlys wrote: post #9
harikb wrote: post #3

There is a simpler explanation - HVAC jobs are directly influenced by the push to covert everything to heat-pumps. And good heat-pumps are expensive . So when you install a $15K to $25K, installation fee also goes up. I am surprised Solar isn't up there. Panels are cheap, install is what we pay for 10 years+

It's not even that. It's that rich people are the only thing the trades are catering to now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT_uSJVCYds Example of a solar install that was under $20k via DIY - maybe took this guy 1-2 weeks of full-time work. But he was quoted $90k and he did most of it himself - only hiring a backhoe operator to move some dirt around. We're at the point where the trades are only going to cater to ri…

[deleted]
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