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Israels top military lawyer arrested after she admitted leaking video of abuse

theguardian.com

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Re: Israels top military lawyer arrested after she admitted leaking video of abuse

#51

Post by rich_sasha »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #45
mikkupikku wrote: post #31

The whole situation is so extreme it almost reads like sick parody. Last year there were riots in Israel when some IDF soldiers were arrested for raping prisoners. The riots were in defense of the rapists, and were attended not only by extremist Israeli civilians but also Israeli lawmakers, who stormed the military base where the rapists were being held. The leaker releases a video of some of the abuse and is then ac…

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It's a common accusation of pro-Israel side that the whole world is so blindly and forcefully pro-Hamas that Israel can and must to do whatever it takes, even bending or breaking rules it would otherwise respect.

IME this is just not true. Sure, antisemitism is real, especially among certain strata of the society.

BUT in the main, my observation is that no one supports Hamas or their approach. Even people who are very critical of Israel in the West (but not beyond the line of fringe, rabid antisemitism) state that 7/10 attacks were horrific and Hamas is a terrible terrorist org.

I can't help but feel that the "whole world hates us" view is a hyperbola, at some level deliberate, to justify doing whatever Israel wants to civilian Palestinians.

Re: Israels top military lawyer arrested after she admitted leaking video of abuse

#52

Post by thunky »

richardfeynman wrote: post #49
mikkupikku wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really expect all of us to defer our judgement and trust in the integrity of the Israeli courts? The knife didn't shove itself into that prisoner's ass. Those soldiers are rapists.

Actually, in this case I expect you to reject common law standards you would otherwise embrace: the right to a fair trial, the presumption of innocence, the writ of habeas corpus, standards of evidence, etc., and instead to rely on your instincts and feelings. It feels nicer for many to think like a medieval peasant than an enlightened liberal when it comes to Israel and the Jews. Nor am I surprised by your antipathy…

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Re: Israels top military lawyer arrested after she admitted leaking video of abuse

#53

Post by thunky »

discotop wrote: post #50
richardfeynman wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, in this case I expect you to reject common law standards you would otherwise embrace: the right to a fair trial, the presumption of innocence, the writ of habeas corpus, standards of evidence, etc., and instead to rely on your instincts and feelings. It feels nicer for many to think like a medieval peasant than an enlightened liberal when it comes to Israel and the Jews. Nor am I surprised by your antipathy…

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And you won't get far trying to cast critics of Israel's actions as Jew-hating. It's a tired move.

Re: Israels top military lawyer arrested after she admitted leaking video of abuse

#54

Post by richardfeynman »

discotop wrote: post #50
richardfeynman wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, in this case I expect you to reject common law standards you would otherwise embrace: the right to a fair trial, the presumption of innocence, the writ of habeas corpus, standards of evidence, etc., and instead to rely on your instincts and feelings. It feels nicer for many to think like a medieval peasant than an enlightened liberal when it comes to Israel and the Jews. Nor am I surprised by your antipathy…

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I'm not trying to get the commenter to tone it down. Nor am I certain that they're jew-haters. I'm trying to get people to realize that however they feel about Jews their standards of evidence are absurdly different when it comes to Israel.

The video in question is troubling and should be investigated, but it does not clearly show rape, so I think that for someone to say "this shows rape" and "no matter what evidence comes out in trial I can dismiss that because it's a trial in Israel" is medieval peasant thinking.

Re: Israels top military lawyer arrested after she admitted leaking video of abuse

#55

Post by richardfeynman »

thunky wrote: post #52
richardfeynman wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, in this case I expect you to reject common law standards you would otherwise embrace: the right to a fair trial, the presumption of innocence, the writ of habeas corpus, standards of evidence, etc., and instead to rely on your instincts and feelings. It feels nicer for many to think like a medieval peasant than an enlightened liberal when it comes to Israel and the Jews. Nor am I surprised by your antipathy…

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Re: Israels top military lawyer arrested after she admitted leaking video of abuse

#56

Post by wredcoll »

discotop wrote: post #50
richardfeynman wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, in this case I expect you to reject common law standards you would otherwise embrace: the right to a fair trial, the presumption of innocence, the writ of habeas corpus, standards of evidence, etc., and instead to rely on your instincts and feelings. It feels nicer for many to think like a medieval peasant than an enlightened liberal when it comes to Israel and the Jews. Nor am I surprised by your antipathy…

[flagged]

You're the first person to bring up jews. The rest of us are talking about israelis, try to keep up.

Re: Israels top military lawyer arrested after she admitted leaking video of abuse

#57

Post by wredcoll »

throwawayk7h wrote: post #36
hedora wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the term you are looking for is “blood libel”, which I haven’t heard until recently. From context, it means “to speak the truth and present irrefutable evidence to back it up”. I guess that’s a crime?

This is the first time I've ever seen someone suggest there was truth to the blood libel. It seems pretty obviously absurd to me that there would exist a Jewish ritual requiring Christian blood. Can you provide this "irrefutable evidence," please?

It's a reference to the video of israeli crimes being referred to as "blood libel"

Re: Israels top military lawyer arrested after she admitted leaking video of abuse

#58

Post by wredcoll »

richardfeynman wrote: post #40
hedora wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the term you are looking for is “blood libel”, which I haven’t heard until recently. From context, it means “to speak the truth and present irrefutable evidence to back it up”. I guess that’s a crime?

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I appreciate how quickly you jump from "oh we need incontrovertible proof of guilt" to "oh that proof isn't real it's a hoax"

Re: Israels top military lawyer arrested after she admitted leaking video of abuse

#59

Post by richardfeynman »

wredcoll wrote: post #58
richardfeynman wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I appreciate how quickly you jump from "oh we need incontrovertible proof of guilt" to "oh that proof isn't real it's a hoax"

In one sentence, you managed to make up two things I never said, put them both in quotes, and then falsely allege I jumped from one statement I never said to the other I also never said. This shows an impressive amount of bad faith.

Re: Israels top military lawyer arrested after she admitted leaking video of abuse

#60

Post by cholantesh »

richardfeynman wrote: post #54
discotop wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm not trying to get the commenter to tone it down. Nor am I certain that they're jew-haters. I'm trying to get people to realize that however they feel about Jews their standards of evidence are absurdly different when it comes to Israel. The video in question is troubling and should be investigated, but it does not clearly show rape, so I think that for someone to say "this shows rape" and "no matter what evidence…

> I'm trying to get people to realize that however they feel about Jews their standards of evidence are absurdly different when it comes to Israel.

That the video doesn't show rape and/or was doctored are also contested allegations, so your pearl clutching about double standards rings extremely hollow.

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