New Zealand admits illegally spying on Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom
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New Zealand admits illegally spying on Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom
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Re: New Zealand admits illegally spying on Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom
#2The real question: is Dotcom innocent of his alleged crimes? The real story is that if Dotcom was facilitating piracy. The technicality of if he was wire tapped illegally or not is important in theory, but it comes down to this: Dotcom would not be in trouble if he hadn't broken the law. If he was innocent, then this would be a big story. This is similar to someone caught in video robbing a store but beating the charge because of a technicality.
Criminals winning cases on technicalities while still having committed the crime is not justice. Justice is getting punished for crimes actually committed. Justice is when innocent people are acquitted of crimes they did not commit.
Turning Dotcom into somekind of folk hero is ridiculous. He became very wealthy by facilitating theft. It isn't like he was donating the proceeds to build schools for girls in Afghanistan. If he broke a potentially unfair law as a statement and did it for something other than getting rich, maybe then we could consider him something other than what he is -- a self-serving criminal.
Re: New Zealand admits illegally spying on Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom
#3This is my surprised face.
Other western countries do what is asked of them when the US comes calling.
Re: New Zealand admits illegally spying on Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom
#4Ah but New Zealand still doesn't let the US nuclear powered ships in their waters! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear-free_zone#New_Zealand
Why should they fold to the US government who is basically being controlled by the media industry?
There is a process to get someone extradited it should be followed
Re: New Zealand admits illegally spying on Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom
#5The real question: is Dotcom innocent of his alleged crimes? The real story is that if Dotcom was facilitating piracy. The technicality of if he was wire tapped illegally or not is important in theory, but it comes down to this: Dotcom would not be in trouble if he hadn't broken the law. If he was innocent, then this would be a big story. This is similar to someone caught in video robbing a store but beating the char…
[deleted]
Re: New Zealand admits illegally spying on Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom
#6The real question: is Dotcom innocent of his alleged crimes? The real story is that if Dotcom was facilitating piracy. The technicality of if he was wire tapped illegally or not is important in theory, but it comes down to this: Dotcom would not be in trouble if he hadn't broken the law. If he was innocent, then this would be a big story. This is similar to someone caught in video robbing a store but beating the char…
> This is similar to someone caught in video robbing a store but beating the charge because of a technicality
It is more like someone being _accused_ of robbing a video store and then it turned out the only evidence against them was acquired when the police broke into his home to steal his dairy.
Re: New Zealand admits illegally spying on Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom
#7The real question: is Dotcom innocent of his alleged crimes? The real story is that if Dotcom was facilitating piracy. The technicality of if he was wire tapped illegally or not is important in theory, but it comes down to this: Dotcom would not be in trouble if he hadn't broken the law. If he was innocent, then this would be a big story. This is similar to someone caught in video robbing a store but beating the char…
"Justice is getting punished for crimes actually committed."
A government's complete disregard for due process is a far greater crime than piracy.
The punishment for this crime is "[c]riminals winning cases on technicalities".
Re: New Zealand admits illegally spying on Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom
#8The real question: is Dotcom innocent of his alleged crimes? The real story is that if Dotcom was facilitating piracy. The technicality of if he was wire tapped illegally or not is important in theory, but it comes down to this: Dotcom would not be in trouble if he hadn't broken the law. If he was innocent, then this would be a big story. This is similar to someone caught in video robbing a store but beating the char…
The apparatus of state security being turned against its people is not a fact to just be brushed aside. So no, our feelings about the individual subject or subjects of illegal spying in some specific case or other is not 'the real question'. We have plenty of opportunity to air that discussion, separately.
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Having just read the PM's statement[1], I can't see any signs of actual corruption in the procedure that was followed. It seems reasonably likely that this was just a mistake.
[1] http://beehive.govt.nz/release/inspector-general%E2%80%99s-r...
Re: New Zealand admits illegally spying on Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom
#9The real question: is Dotcom innocent of his alleged crimes? The real story is that if Dotcom was facilitating piracy. The technicality of if he was wire tapped illegally or not is important in theory, but it comes down to this: Dotcom would not be in trouble if he hadn't broken the law. If he was innocent, then this would be a big story. This is similar to someone caught in video robbing a store but beating the char…
Well, we won't know if Dotcom is not guilty or not until there's a trial. So you can't justify the means (illegal spying) with the ends. You are assuming guilt before any proof is offered, and any determination made. That's the big flaw in your argument.
This may be because of your cultural heritage. In the English Common Law tradition, which New Zealand, and in he past the USA, is part of, the state isn't entitled to collect evidence in any way possible. People representing the state have to follow the law themselves. They can't torture confessions out of "guilty" people, they can't manufacture evidence, they have to use legal methods to obtain the evidence.
If the NZ Spy Agency broke New Zealand laws to get evidence, then that evidence is inadmissible in court, at least traditionally, under Common Law.
Re: New Zealand admits illegally spying on Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom
#10The real question: is Dotcom innocent of his alleged crimes? The real story is that if Dotcom was facilitating piracy. The technicality of if he was wire tapped illegally or not is important in theory, but it comes down to this: Dotcom would not be in trouble if he hadn't broken the law. If he was innocent, then this would be a big story. This is similar to someone caught in video robbing a store but beating the char…
"Justice is getting punished for crimes actually committed." A government's complete disregard for due process is a far greater crime than piracy. The punishment for this crime is "[c]riminals winning cases on technicalities".
> The punishment for this crime is "[c]riminals winning cases on technicalities".
I disagree. The punishment is to find the person or persons responsible and, at a minimum, fire them. That should serve as a warning to others that you either do it right, or not at all.
The "[c]riminals winning cases on technicalities" is a side-effect of erroneous judgement.