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Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

supercarblondie.com

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Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#341

Post by hawk_ »

Lio wrote: post #325
mrguyorama wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting the motors in the wheel is bad for a separate reason: Unsprung weight. Every ounce you have in the hubs that don't float on the suspension reduces certain suspension attributes. You end up with a crappier ride and poor performance.

Yes, I agree. I was careful about how I worded this to avoid saying anything about the motors actually being in the wheels for this reason. Although, I guess at some point in the future if we can get the weight down low enough and the strength of the motor high enough we could replace the existing braking system with a motor for the same weight penalty we already pay. In an ideal world all the energy from breaking wo…

Deceleration requirements are going to be harder than acceleration, one would think so how would you apply full brakes with the same motor?

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#342

Post by littlestymaar »

davedx wrote: post #6

Could lead to significant efficiency gains for EV's, because 1/4 of the motor weight means better power-to-weight ratio... a lot of things will automatically get better. YASA was founded in 2009, a spin out from Oxford University following the PhD of founder and still CTO, Dr Tim Woolmer. "Over the decades that followed both of these technologies were explored. But despite the potential for weight reduction, smaller…

> because 1/4 of the motor weight means better power-to-weight ratio...

1/4 of something that is a small fraction of the total weight of a car means very little improvement in overall power to weight ratio.

I suspect that gaining 40% of car seat weight would be much more beneficial even if way less sexy.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#343

Post by jama211 »

scoobytuber wrote: post #214
jama211 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does it say it’s inside the wheel? Not sure about that

He’s holding the motor in the picture. That format is in-wheel BLDC.

I don’t believe it is in this case.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#344

Post by toss1 »

mrguyorama wrote: post #318
Lio wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a game changer but I wonder if ligher motors allow you to do things like have one motor per drive wheel, removing the need for differential gearboxes? Then you can do clever things with traction control without having to use the ABS system to brake the drive wheels. Or dramatically change the turning circle on big cars and vans. Maybe even reduce the size and weight of the braking system by taking on some of that…

Putting the motors in the wheel is bad for a separate reason: Unsprung weight. Every ounce you have in the hubs that don't float on the suspension reduces certain suspension attributes. You end up with a crappier ride and poor performance.

Exactly this, which is why I'd expect automakers to use the short axles and CV (constant-velocity) joints which are already well-developed technologies for 4-wheel independent suspensions

I see no reason the small motors can't be mounted inboard from the wheels on the underside of the chassis, as are a rear differential or front transaxle in an ICE car.

Having such a small and lightweight power package opens up serious design and performance opportunities. Plus, even without major redesign to take full advantage, every reduction in weight rolls through the system, providing immediate improved acceleration, cornering, & braking or similar performance using smaller tires, brakes etc..

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#345

Post by jama211 »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #207
jama211 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see anything inside the article that says it’s designed to be inside the wheel. I’m not sure where they got that from.

From Wikipedia on Axial Flux Motors: >"Mercedes-Benz subsidiary YASA (Yokeless and Segmented Armature) makes AFMs that have powered various concept (Jaguar C-X75), prototype, and racing vehicles. It was also used in the Koenigsegg Regera, the Ferrari SF90 Stradale and S96GTB, Lamborghini Revuelto hybrid and the Lola-Drayson.[9] The company is investigating the potential for placing motors inside wheels, given that AF…

They’re investigating the potential for them to be placed inside wheels, but they aren’t at the moment, so my point stands.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#346

Post by jama211 »

hylaride wrote: post #145
jama211 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see anything inside the article that says it’s designed to be inside the wheel. I’m not sure where they got that from.

I think they misspoke when they said "in" the wheel, but supercars can have a separate motor for each wheel, and the closer they are to the wheel the better the torque as it's not also driving a longer shaft. The smaller the motor, the closer you can get.

Interesting! But yes in axel in this case then

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#347

Post by lazide »

I_dream_of_Geni wrote: post #257
lazide wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but at 50kw/kg at 99% efficiency is still 500w/kg, which is cray cray. Like ‘glowing red hot shortly’ type of crazy with just passive cooling. And there is no way this is 99% efficient. So my question still applies. Even 98% is 1kw/kg, or 1kj/sec. or around 3C rise per second assuming the mass is 100% nice clean copper (it isn’t). Everything else will be worse. Not even counting increasing losses with temperatu…

I was waiting to see in the comments EXACTLY this question: There is no way to dump this heat. 1000hp? Yeah, maybe for a few seconds, even with oil coolant pumping through there. Then how to dump the heat from the oil. And further thinking, if they ever get this to be a hub motor, how in the world are they going to pump coolant through 2-4 hub motors and then to a radiator that can dump that rate of heat rise, especi…

Those could be answered by large radiators or the like - when outside the ‘has to be dense’ path. The issue the motor has is exactly that it needs to be dense - and has a lot of power going through it.

Liquid cooling at least for now should work - as long as it stays below the flash point of the liquid I guess.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#348

Post by jama211 »

tclancy wrote: post #143
jama211 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see anything inside the article that says it’s designed to be inside the wheel. I’m not sure where they got that from.

I get your skepticism and I know nothing about the field, but if the round thing in the press release picture isn’t designed to fit in a wheel, I’m confused. https://yasa.com/news/yasa-smashes-own-unofficial-power-dens...

It’s currently designed for the axel for now as far as I’m aware.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#349

Post by coryrc »

electrograv wrote: post #238
davedx wrote: post #6

Could lead to significant efficiency gains for EV's, because 1/4 of the motor weight means better power-to-weight ratio... a lot of things will automatically get better. YASA was founded in 2009, a spin out from Oxford University following the PhD of founder and still CTO, Dr Tim Woolmer. "Over the decades that followed both of these technologies were explored. But despite the potential for weight reduction, smaller…

> In 2025, after a £12m investment, YASA opened the UK's first axial-flux super factory, in Oxfordshire. It’s a little sad to me that fundamental innovations in electromechanical engineering like this get just a few million in investment, yet if this had been yet another derivative software startup with “AI” in the pitch, they’d probably have 10x+ or more investments being thrown at them.

Or maybe it's not as important as they make it sound.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#350

Post by hinkley »

First motor I saw in this category was much larger because it had massive mount points to attach it to the car so the torque would go to the wheels and not to destroying the motor.

This one has a narrow ring meant for 3/8” bolts? I guess if you’re buying a 1000 hp motor you can afford titanium carriage bolts.

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