Live data from Hacker News

Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that rivals OpenAI DeepResearch

tongyi-agent.github.io

81–90 of 156 posts

Re: Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that rivals OpenAI DeepResearch

#81

Has anyone found these deep research tools useful? In my experience, they generate really bland reports don't go much further than summarization of what a search engine would return.

I tend to use them when I'm looking to buy something of category X, and want to get a market overview. I can then still dig in and decide whether I consider the sources used trustworthy or not, and before committing money, I'll read some reviews myself, too. Still, it's a speedup for me.

Re: Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that rivals OpenAI DeepResearch

#82
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

llama.cpp + quantized: https://huggingface.co/bartowski/Alibaba-NLP_Tongyi-DeepRese... get the biggest one that will fit in your vram.

How do people deal with all the different quantisations? Generally if I see an Unsloth I'm happy to try it locally; random other peoples...how do I know what I'm getting? (If nothing else Tongyi are currently winning AI with cutest logo)

personally I've only used them for toying around - but in all cases you have to test them for your use case anyway.

Re: Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that rivals OpenAI DeepResearch

#83
post #68

Has anyone found these deep research tools useful? In my experience, they generate really bland reports don't go much further than summarization of what a search engine would return.

My experience is the same as yours. It feels to me (similar to most LLM writing) like they write for someone who’s not going to read it or use it but is going to glance at it and judge the quality that way and assume it’s good. Not to different from a lot of consulting reports, in fact, and pretty much of no value if if you’re actually trying to learn something. Edit to add: even the name “deep research” to me feels…

"they write for someone who’s not going to read it" is a great way to phrase it.

Re: Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that rivals OpenAI DeepResearch

#85
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually can’t read it for some reason? My brain just can’t connect the words

so it appears the entire text has been Translated with non-breaking space unicode x00a0 instead of normal spaces x0020, so the web layout is considering all paragraph text as a super-long single word ('the\00a0quick\00a0\brown\00a0fox' instead of 'the quick brown fox') - the non-breaking space character appears identically to breaking-space when rendered but underlying coding breaks the concept of "break at end of wo…

This is completely fascinating although puzzling how that happens.

The script is great!

Re: Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that rivals OpenAI DeepResearch

#86
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've recently put together a setup that seemed reasonable for my limited budget. Mind you, most of the components were second-hand, open box deals, or deep discount of the moment. This comfortably fits FP8 quantized 30B models that seem to be "top of the line for hobbyists" grade across the board. - Ryzen 9 9950X - MSI MPG X670E Carbon - 96GB RAM - 2x RTX 3090 (24GB VRAM each) - 1600W PSU

Does it offer more performance than a Macbook Pro that could be had for a comparable sum? Your build can be had for under $3k; a used MBP M3 with 64 GB RAM can be had for approximately $3.5k.

MacBooks have some clever chips, but 2x 3090 is a lot of brawn to overcome.

Re: Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that rivals OpenAI DeepResearch

#87
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the lesson of the Chinese catchup in AI is that there is a massive disadvantage in being first, in this domain. You can do all the hard work and your competitors can distill that work out of your model for pennies on the dollar. Why should anyone want to do the work?

This sounds like copium . If it was just about distillation,we'd be seeing many awesome models from Europe ,Japan and even India.

It's certainly both a lot more than distillation and at least some Chinese labs have been cloning OpenAI via distillation. That's why they instituted much tighter ID verification requirements earlier this year.

No, the reason you don't see many open source models coming from the rest-of-world (other than Mistral in France) is that you still need a ton of capital to do it. China can compete because the CCP used a combination of the Great Firewall and lax copyright/patent enforcement to implement protectionism for internet services, which is a unique policy (one that obviously came with massive costs too). This allowed China to develop home grown tech companies which then have the datacenters, capital and talent density to train models. Rest of world didn't do this and wasn't able to build up domestic tech industries competitive with the USA.

Re: Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that rivals OpenAI DeepResearch

#88

Unfortunately soon China will take lead in AI.

Isn't this an indication they are already in the lead? They currently have the best model that beats everyone on all quantitative metrics? Are you implying that the US has a better model somewhere?

They aren't in the lead. They are very close behind, but that's not hard given the quantity of freely published papers. They keep proving they can train models competitive with US models, but, only months after the fact. And at least some of the Chinese models were trained via distillation from US models. Probably not at Alibaba but it seems at least some models were.

Re: Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that rivals OpenAI DeepResearch

#89
post #8

It makes me wonder if we'll see an explosion of purpose trained LLMs because we hit diminishing returns on invest with pre training or if it takes a couple of months to fold these advantages back into the frontier models. Given the size of frontier models I would assume that they can incorporate many specializations and the most lasting thing here is the training environment. But there is probably already some tradeo…

It reminds me of a story I read somewhere that some guy high on drugs climbed to the top of some elevated campus headlights shouting things about being a moth and loving lights, and the security guys tried telling him to go down but he paid no attention to that and time went on until a janitor came and shut off the lights, then turned one of those high powered handheld ones and point it at him the guy quickly climbed down there.

So yeah I think there are different levels of thinking, maybe future models with have some sort of internal models once they recognize patterns of some level of thinking, I'm not that knowledgeable of the internal workings of LLMs so maybe this is all nonsense.

Re: Tongyi DeepResearch – open-source 30B MoE Model that rivals OpenAI DeepResearch

#90
post #80
post #8

It makes me wonder if we'll see an explosion of purpose trained LLMs because we hit diminishing returns on invest with pre training or if it takes a couple of months to fold these advantages back into the frontier models. Given the size of frontier models I would assume that they can incorporate many specializations and the most lasting thing here is the training environment. But there is probably already some tradeo…

> or if it takes a couple of months to fold these advantages back into the frontier models. Right now, I believe we're seeing that the big general-purpose models outperform approximately everything else. Special-purpose models (essentially: fine tunes) of smaller models make sense when you want to solve a specific task at lower cost/lower latency, and you transfer some/most of the abilities in that domain from a bigg…

Right, the Costco problem. A small boutique eg wine store might be able to do better for picking a very specific wine for a specific occasion, but Costco is just so much bigger that they can make it up in Volume and buy cases and cases of everything with a lower markup, so it ends up being cheaper to shop at Costco, no matter how much you want to support the local wine boutique.
Post reply on HN