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Czech police forced to turn off facial recognition cameras at the Prague airport

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Re: Czech police forced to turn off facial recognition cameras at the Prague airport

#11

Post by idle_zealot »

analog8374 wrote: post #3
hacka22 wrote: post #2

this is great news and I wonder if and how this has impact on other European deployments

We're preferring ignorance to knowledge here because we don't trust the government. Which is weird.

It's not just the government. Generally I think knowledge is very important, but as with any important value it butts up against other rights and values. In this case, the individual right to privacy ought to win out against a company or government's or neighbor's right to knowledge. Privacy, like speech, is one of those critically important rights that when violated en masse leads to catastrophic harm; in privacy's case that's through chilling effects, enabling more effective targeted enforcement of laws, and effective targeted propaganda campaigns. A lack of privacy reinforces and exaggerates any existing power structures and imbalances. For an authoritarian, this is fantastic. If you believe in democracy or egalitarianism it should be terrifying.

Re: Czech police forced to turn off facial recognition cameras at the Prague airport

#12

Post by Alupis »

idle_zealot wrote: post #11
analog8374 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're preferring ignorance to knowledge here because we don't trust the government. Which is weird.

It's not just the government. Generally I think knowledge is very important, but as with any important value it butts up against other rights and values. In this case, the individual right to privacy ought to win out against a company or government's or neighbor's right to knowledge. Privacy, like speech, is one of those critically important rights that when violated en masse leads to catastrophic harm; in privacy's…

Is being in an airport actually considered private?

It's a public space, and you must show ID to gain access to the secured area. Additionally, you are subjected to baggage and carry-on inspection, as well as body inspection and metal detection, etc. There are cameras everywhere, monitoring and recording everything.

Presumably this system was designed to recognize individuals that may be traveling under false-identities, and are known "bad guys" - otherwise the nation-state security apparatus would have known about the attempted air travel well in advance.

The ability to abuse this system may be real, but it seems much more likely your rights would be violated well before you reached any facial recognition systems.

Re: Czech police forced to turn off facial recognition cameras at the Prague airport

#13

Post by Alupis »

parineum wrote: post #8
analog8374 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're preferring ignorance to knowledge here because we don't trust the government. Which is weird.

Prefering government ignorance is the same as privacy.

Privacy would mean being able to fly anywhere without showing ID - which is not reality.

Re: Czech police forced to turn off facial recognition cameras at the Prague airport

#14

Post by jbv027 »

viraptor wrote: post #9
analog8374 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're preferring ignorance to knowledge here because we don't trust the government. Which is weird.

Generally we also don't trust the technology, not just the government. Unless you're up for being detained just because you look quite like some wanted person. Given enough samples, there is some guaranteed overlap.

Also technology provider is important. I doubt that government is able to self host face recognition. So the most common implementation would be microsoft (or any big corp good at lobbying in this part of the world) owning technology and data to preserve their vendor lock in. So there is high probability that those data will be used for other purposes (you can easily imagine standard corporate excuses if someone finds out).

Re: Czech police forced to turn off facial recognition cameras at the Prague airport

#15

Post by FridayoLeary »

I assumed that every airport does it as a matter of policy. A border guard in the UK told me the reason they don't bother checking your passport when you leave is because they check your face on camera.

In this case it seems like a legitimate use of facial recognition: catching criminals. The story is of interest to me because i've been through the airport many times. I guess they have a picture of me.

ot but in many European airports i've been to they have those clunky face scanning machines and after that proper passport controls. I've discovered that in some places i can skip them and get my passport stamped with no issues.

Re: Czech police forced to turn off facial recognition cameras at the Prague airport

#16

Post by SoftTalker »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #15

I assumed that every airport does it as a matter of policy. A border guard in the UK told me the reason they don't bother checking your passport when you leave is because they check your face on camera. In this case it seems like a legitimate use of facial recognition: catching criminals. The story is of interest to me because i've been through the airport many times. I guess they have a picture of me. ot but in many…

Last time I came into the USA from Europe they never checked my passport. They know who is on each arriving flight and match faces to passport records.

Re: Czech police forced to turn off facial recognition cameras at the Prague airport

#17

Post by Brian_K_White »

Alupis wrote: post #13
parineum wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prefering government ignorance is the same as privacy.

Privacy would mean being able to fly anywhere without showing ID - which is not reality.

In the 70's, way before any internet databases and real-time data aggregation & automated analysis, you had to show ID to buy beer.

So what? What do you suppose that proves or justifies or excuses?

The ID served a valid purpose of controlling who had access to beer, yet did not track anyone's movements or habits or compile a profile on them or associate them with others into cohorts or allow anyone to presume to make any kinds of judgements or predictions about them.

The two things are not automatically and necessarily tied. It's a disingenuous lie to act like they are and use the one to justify or excuse the other.

Indulging in a little predicting myself, let me guess what comes next, "But showing ID for beer never prevented every single underage human from somehow obtaining beer." ? Wait it was unfair for me to assume that based on some data I just collected (your comment)?

Re: Czech police forced to turn off facial recognition cameras at the Prague airport

#18

Post by michaelt »

Alupis wrote: post #12
idle_zealot wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the government. Generally I think knowledge is very important, but as with any important value it butts up against other rights and values. In this case, the individual right to privacy ought to win out against a company or government's or neighbor's right to knowledge. Privacy, like speech, is one of those critically important rights that when violated en masse leads to catastrophic harm; in privacy's…

Is being in an airport actually considered private? It's a public space, and you must show ID to gain access to the secured area. Additionally, you are subjected to baggage and carry-on inspection, as well as body inspection and metal detection, etc. There are cameras everywhere, monitoring and recording everything. Presumably this system was designed to recognize individuals that may be traveling under false-identit…

It's not the airport specifically, it's the use of automated facial recognition at all.

Many former Warsaw Pact citizens have lived under a surveillance state with a dossier on every citizen, and didn't find it particularly great.

Re: Czech police forced to turn off facial recognition cameras at the Prague airport

#19

Post by octoberfranklin »

aerostable_slug wrote: post #10

Sure to result in a surge of ticket sales as clandestine intelligence operatives pivot to Czechia as their flight hub of choice. /s

Nah, they still have Vienna.

But seriously I don't think you can fly direct from the US to Prague. You're gonna get face-scanned in Heathrow or some other transit airport.

But I am once again impressed with the Czechs. They get it.

Re: Czech police forced to turn off facial recognition cameras at the Prague airport

#20

Post by estimator7292 »

analog8374 wrote: post #3
hacka22 wrote: post #2

this is great news and I wonder if and how this has impact on other European deployments

We're preferring ignorance to knowledge here because we don't trust the government. Which is weird.

"The government" did not implement, build, install, nor do they control or understand, these systems.

These systems are built and controlled entirely by third party private corporations who are only technically held to any kind of standards on privacy or security. In the absolute worst possible case, they receive a symbolic fine for breaking any privacy or data security laws.

Whether or not you trust "the government" is almost irrelevant. Do you trust whatever corporate entitiy has exclusive control over these systems? Do you even know who that is?

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