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Free software scares normal people

danieldelaney.net

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Re: Free software scares normal people

#351

Post by makeitdouble »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #336
makeitdouble wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> creating good interfaces (for people that aren’t developers.) This is the part where people get excited about AI. I personally think they're dead wrong on the process, but strongly empathize with that end goal. Giving people the power to make the interfaces they need is the most enduring solution to this issue. We had attempts like HyperCard or Delphi, or Access forms. We still get Excel forms, Google forms etc. Ha…

I have nightmare stories to tell of Access Forms from my time dealing with them in the 90's. The usual situation is that the business department hires someone with a modicum of talent or interest in tech, who then uses Access to build an application that automates or helps with some aspect of the department's work. They then leave (in a couple of cases these people were just interns) and the IT department is then cal…

> The usual situation is that the business department hires someone with a modicum of talent or interest in tech

This reminds me of the "just walk confidently to their office and ask for a job to get one!" advice. This sounded bullshit to me until I got to stay with some parts of a previous company, where the hiring process wasn't that far really.

That's also the kind of companies where contracts and vendor choices will be negociated on golf courses and the CEO's buddies could as well be running the company it would be the same.

I feel for you.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#352

Post by nradov »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #345
nradov wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course this is ultimately the IT department's own fault for not responding quickly enough to legitimate business requirements. They need to actively look for ways to help rather than processing tickets.

Yeah, this is always the response. But it's wildly impractical - there are only so many developer hours available. The budget is limited, so not everyone gets what they want immediately. This should be obvious. Part of the problem is that the novices that create these applications don't consider all the edge cases and gnarly non-golden-path situations, but the experienced devs do. So the novice slaps together somethi…

In most organizations the problem is lack of urgency rather than lack of developer hours. The developers sit in isolated siloes rather than going out and directly engaging with business units. This is mostly a management problem but there are plenty of individual developers who wait to be told what to do rather than actively seeking out better solutions for business problems.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#353

Post by bugsliker »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #347
bugsliker wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would people choose to suffer a skill issue for a skill they have? that makes no sense to me and imo you're vastly underestimating this percent.

Quitting is easier.

you’re bringing in an unwarranted value judgement on quitting here. easier why? maybe because i have more important things to do?

Re: Free software scares normal people

#354

Post by marcus_holmes »

loki-ai wrote: post #349
marcus_holmes wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have nightmare stories to tell of Access Forms from my time dealing with them in the 90's. The usual situation is that the business department hires someone with a modicum of talent or interest in tech, who then uses Access to build an application that automates or helps with some aspect of the department's work. They then leave (in a couple of cases these people were just interns) and the IT department is then cal…

more often than not it’s the development team that skips engaging with users, putting in minimal effort to understand their real needs. most of these teams only wants a straightforward spec, shut themselves off from distractions, just to emerge weeks or months later with something that completely misses the business case. and yet, they will find ways to point fingers at the product owner, project manager, or client f…

I have met the occasional person like this, sure. But only ever in really large organisations where they can hide, and only a minority.

The huge majority of devs want to understand the business and develop high quality software for it.

In one business I worked for, the devs knew more about the actual working of the business than most of the non-IT staff. One of the devs I worked with was routinely pulled into high-level strategy meetings because of his encyclopaedic knowledge of the details of the business.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#355

Post by tombert »

sudobash1 wrote: post #350
bruce511 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, people can learn and appreciate if given the chance. But they've more important things to do so changing OS is just a distraction. I know, techies love to love or hate the OS. Here there are endless threads waxing lyrical about Windows, MacOS or say dozen Linux installs. But 99% of users could care less. It's kinda like cars. Petrol heads will talk cars for ages. Engine specs. What brand of oil. Gearbox rati…

> And I'm not interested in re-teaching her every bit of software, and she's not interested in relearning every bit of software. I don't see Windows as having much of an edge there. Lots of things seem to change on Windows just for change's sake. I get so tired of the churn on Windows versions and finding how to disable the new crummy features. If you want to avoid relearning all the time, something simple like XFCE…

And Linux won't arbitrarily irrevocably brick your computer because of an automatic update. In my opinion, having your computer bricked because of an automatic update is a very large change to adapt to.

I feel the need to constantly reiterate this; if someone who works on Windows Update reads this, please consider a different career, because you are categorically terrible at your job. There are plenty of jobs out there that don't involve software engineering.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#356

Post by marcus_holmes »

nradov wrote: post #352
marcus_holmes wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is always the response. But it's wildly impractical - there are only so many developer hours available. The budget is limited, so not everyone gets what they want immediately. This should be obvious. Part of the problem is that the novices that create these applications don't consider all the edge cases and gnarly non-golden-path situations, but the experienced devs do. So the novice slaps together somethi…

In most organizations the problem is lack of urgency rather than lack of developer hours. The developers sit in isolated siloes rather than going out and directly engaging with business units. This is mostly a management problem but there are plenty of individual developers who wait to be told what to do rather than actively seeking out better solutions for business problems.

This usually comes back to maker time vs manager time.

If you want a developer to write good code quickly, put them in an isolated silo and don't disturb them.

If you want a developer to engage with the business units more, be prepared for their productivity to drop sharply.

As with all things in tech, it's a trade-off.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#357

Post by aidenn0 »

squeedles wrote: post #10

Good article, but the reasoning is wrong. It isn't easy to make a simple interface in the same way that Pascal apologized for writing a long letter because he didn't have time to write a shorter one. Implementing the UI for one exact use case is not much trouble, but figuring out what that use case is difficult. And defending that use case from the line of people who want "that + this little extra thing", or the "I j…

Not only is it hard to figure out the use-case, but the correct use-case will change over time. If this were made in the iPod touch era, it would probably make 240p files for maximum compatibility. That's ... probably the wrong setting for today.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#358

Post by aidenn0 »

hobs wrote: post #315
rkunal wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a common misconception that the "expert" knows the best. Expert can be a trainee, or may be motivated to make more for its organisation or have yet to encounter your problem. On the other hand, if you are using your car for a decade and feel it needs a new belt - then get a new belt. Worst case scenario- you will lose some money but learn a bit more about an item you use everyday. Experts don't have your instin…

If you don't trust the expert then why are you asking them to fix your stuff? It's a weird idea that you'd want an idiot to do what you say because you know better.

In this case, it's at least partly because the expert has access to a lift...

Re: Free software scares normal people

#360

Post by mvdtnz »

singhrac wrote: post #120
gspencley wrote: post #98

A lot of this type of stuff boils down to what you're used to. My wife is not particularly tech savvy. She is a Linux user, however. When we started a new business, we needed certain applications that only run on Windows and since she would be at the brick and mortar location full time, I figured we could multi-purpose a new laptop for her and have her switch to Windows. She hated it and begged for us to get a dedica…

One summer in middle school our family computer failed. We bought a new motherboard from Microcenter but it didn’t come with a Windows license, so I proposed we just try Ubuntu for a while. My mom had no trouble adjusting to it. It was all just computer to her in some ways.

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