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Free software scares normal people

danieldelaney.net

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Re: Free software scares normal people

#211

Post by ashtakeaway »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #101
ageitgey wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that everyone wants a different 20% of the functionality. I'm not disagreeing with your basic take, but I think this part is a little more subtle. I'd argue that 80% of users (by raw user count) do want roughly the same 20% of functionality, most of the time. The problem in FOSS is that average user in the FOSS ecosystem is not remotely close to the profile of that 80%. The average FOSS user is part…

There's a good report/study about the complexity of Microsoft Word floating around somewhere. It was something like: - almost everybody only uses about 20% of the features of Word - everybody's 20% is different, but - ~80% of the 20% is common to most users. - on the other hand, the remaining 20% of the 20% is widely distributed and covers basically all of the product. So if you made a version of Word with 16% of its…

Kind of like how the author likely knows about the report and wanted to make a blog post about it without saying anything about or citing the report itself. IT seems like it but 80/20 can be found in lots of places, just like 60/40 can.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#212

Post by Dylan16807 »

bugsliker wrote: post #86
kccqzy wrote: post #56

I think there is something deeper here: people have become scared of the unknown, therefore we need to hide things for them. But people don't have to be scared. In fact even for people who are using Handbrake comfortably, a lot of things Handbrake presents in its UI are probably unknown to them and can safely be ignored. The screenshot in the article shows that Handbrake analyzed the source video and reported it as 3…

How do you gain the confidence that what you choose to ignore is safe to ignore? Computer damage is one potential consequence on the extreme end. On the conservative end, the software might just not work the way you want and you waste your time. It’s a mental model you have to develop. Even as a technical power user though, I want to reduce the risk of wasting my time, or even confront the possibility that I might wa…

How do you know the software in the article will do what you want?

For handbrake you can pick a preset and see what happens. Or don't even do that: when you open it it'll make you pick a video file, then you can just jam the green start button and see if it gives you what you need. Very little time spent.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#213

Post by nerdponx »

graybeardhacker wrote: post #194
duxup wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes me how even just regular every day users will come to me with something like this: Overly simplified example: "Can you make this button do X?" where the existing button in so many ways is only distantly connected to X. And then they get stuck on the idea that THAT button has to be where the thing happens, and they stick with it even if you explain that the usual function of that button is Y. I simpli…

I always tell clients (or users): "If you bring your car to the mechanic because it's making a noise and tell them to replace the belt, they will replace the belt and you car will still make the noise. Ask them to fix the noise." In other words, if you need expert help, trust the expert. Ask for what you need, not how to do it.

If you tell the mechanic "my car is making a noise, fix the belt please" and then they just fix the belt, that's on the mechanic as well.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#214

Post by nerdponx »

LegionMammal978 wrote: post #195
nerdponx wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't fall into the trap of responding to the user's request to do Y a certain way. They are asking you to implement Y, and they think they know how it should be implemented, but really they would be happy with Y no matter how you did it. https://xyproblem.info/

On the other hand, I've not uncommonly seen this idea misused: Alice asks for Y, Bob says that it's an XY problem and that Alice really wants to solve a more general problem X with solution Z, Alice says that Z doesn't work for her due to some detail of her problem, Bob browbeats Alice over "If you think Z won't work, then you're wrong, end of story", and everyone argues back and forth over Z instead of coming up wit…

Bob saying "you should use Z end of story" it's just as a hardheaded and unhelpful as Bob saying "X doesn't do that end of story".

Re: Free software scares normal people

#215

Post by some_furry »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #200
some_furry wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet artists expect to be treated differently. Because it's a different job! Your post is like asking, "Why is breathing free but food costs money?"

Either you're implying that people should code for free, or your analogy is so vague as to be useless. Yeah it's a different job but they're both jobs . Why should one be free and one not be free?

Because programmers consent to programming for free. That fact does not, in any way, obligate anyone else to.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#216

Post by exasperaited »

nerdponx wrote: post #172
duxup wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes me how even just regular every day users will come to me with something like this: Overly simplified example: "Can you make this button do X?" where the existing button in so many ways is only distantly connected to X. And then they get stuck on the idea that THAT button has to be where the thing happens, and they stick with it even if you explain that the usual function of that button is Y. I simpli…

Don't fall into the trap of responding to the user's request to do Y a certain way. They are asking you to implement Y, and they think they know how it should be implemented, but really they would be happy with Y no matter how you did it. https://xyproblem.info/

I think the XY problem thing is likely very common. But developers are tending to use the term in a very dismissive way, superior way now.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#217

Post by soraminazuki »

pwg wrote: post #131
ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on. "type ffmpeg, then hyphen i then the input filename then the output filename". I would've understood this when I was 8. Because I was super smart? No, because I was making a genuine effort.

The portion you've overlooked is there is an entire population of users out there who have never seen, nor used, a command line, and telling them to "just type this out" ignores all the background command line knowledge necessary to successfully "just type this out": 1) They have to know how to get to a command line somewhere/how (most of this group of users would be stymied right here and get no further along); 2) T…

The reality is that we've been infantilizing users for far too long. The belief that people can't handle fundamental concepts is misguided and primarily serves to benefit abusive tech companies.

Two decades ago, users understood what "C:\Documents and Settings\username\My Documents" meant and navigated those paths easily. Yet, we decided they were too "stupid" to deal with files and file paths, hiding them away. This conveniently locked users into proprietary platforms. Your point #2 reflects a lie we've collectively accepted as reality. Sadly, too many people now can’t even imagine that a straightforward way to exchange data among different software once existed, but that's a situation we're deliberately perpetuating.

This needs to change. Users deserve the opportunity to learn and engage with their tools rather than being treated as incapable. It’s time we started empowering users for a change.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#218

Post by Dylan16807 »

lutusp wrote: post #105
ferguess_k wrote: post #55

Although I wish Linux were easier to use -- and there are distros that aim for this, I do agree that FOSS is mostly by nerds for nerds, but it doesn't prevent other people making changes -- which is exactly what the author did. So I'd like to welcome the author to make more apps based on FOSS.

> Although I wish Linux were easier to use [ ... ] We're getting there. I run Linux Mint with an XFCE desktop -- an intentionally minimal setup. The system performs automatic updates and the desktop layout/experience resembles older Windows desktops before Microsoft began "improving" things. No ads, no AI. I'm by no means an end user, but in Linux I see incremental progress toward meeting the needs of that audience.…

> What's really missing are online fora able to help end users adjust to Linux -- helpful without being superior or condescending. Certainly true for Windows, not yet true for Linux.

That can be a problem with Linux but in my experience searching for Windows help is usually not good either.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#219

Post by WorldPeas »

mikkupikku wrote: post #36

"I am new to GitHub and I have lots to say I DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE FUCKING CODE! i just want to download this stupid fucking application and use it. WHY IS THERE CODE??? MAKE A FUCKING .EXE FILE AND GIVE IT TO ME. these dumbfucks think that everyone is a developer and understands code. well i am not and i don't understand it. I only know to download and install applications. SO WHY THE FUCK IS THERE CODE? make a…

I know of one company that explicitly didn't make downloads available to dissuade this kind of hard-to-support user from using their time without materially contributing anything
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