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Free software scares normal people

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Re: Free software scares normal people

#151

Post by ferguess_k »

lutusp wrote: post #105
ferguess_k wrote: post #55

Although I wish Linux were easier to use -- and there are distros that aim for this, I do agree that FOSS is mostly by nerds for nerds, but it doesn't prevent other people making changes -- which is exactly what the author did. So I'd like to welcome the author to make more apps based on FOSS.

> Although I wish Linux were easier to use [ ... ] We're getting there. I run Linux Mint with an XFCE desktop -- an intentionally minimal setup. The system performs automatic updates and the desktop layout/experience resembles older Windows desktops before Microsoft began "improving" things. No ads, no AI. I'm by no means an end user, but in Linux I see incremental progress toward meeting the needs of that audience.…

Yeah I agree that the difference of usability between Linux and Windows is getting much smaller, now that MSFT is trashing Windows.

I do have a Linux box, and I only have complaints about small things. Double screen works, VSCode works, Firefox works too. Not much to complaint for a personal dev box. The ability to just `apt install` a bunch of stuffs and then start compiling is pretty nice.

But again, I'm pragmatic, so if I'm doing something Windows related, I'd definitely use my Windows box.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#152

Post by tester457 »

pwg wrote: post #131
ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on. "type ffmpeg, then hyphen i then the input filename then the output filename". I would've understood this when I was 8. Because I was super smart? No, because I was making a genuine effort.

The portion you've overlooked is there is an entire population of users out there who have never seen, nor used, a command line, and telling them to "just type this out" ignores all the background command line knowledge necessary to successfully "just type this out": 1) They have to know how to get to a command line somewhere/how (most of this group of users would be stymied right here and get no further along); 2) T…

How are we so blind to these beginner hurdles?

Few people are able to see through the eyes of a beginner, when they are a master.

The 4th one is a pain to teach. Every other file and directory has spaces... so I encourage liberal use of the TAB key for beginners.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#154

Post by 8note »

lutusp wrote: post #105
ferguess_k wrote: post #55

Although I wish Linux were easier to use -- and there are distros that aim for this, I do agree that FOSS is mostly by nerds for nerds, but it doesn't prevent other people making changes -- which is exactly what the author did. So I'd like to welcome the author to make more apps based on FOSS.

> Although I wish Linux were easier to use [ ... ] We're getting there. I run Linux Mint with an XFCE desktop -- an intentionally minimal setup. The system performs automatic updates and the desktop layout/experience resembles older Windows desktops before Microsoft began "improving" things. No ads, no AI. I'm by no means an end user, but in Linux I see incremental progress toward meeting the needs of that audience.…

> What's really missing are online fora able to help end users adjust to Linux -- helpful without being superior or condescending. Certainly true for Windows, not yet true for Linux.

claude-code actually does this really well, having used it to set up gnome on my phone, and fix all my problems without having to learn anything

Re: Free software scares normal people

#155

Post by bluGill »

advisedwang wrote: post #20

Meanwhile, every time Gnome makes UI adjustments along these lines, there's an outcry that it's dumbed downed, copying apple, removing features etc etc.

There is a massive amount of compromise in a UI. Adding features adds complexity. If you need that feature you have to accept the complexity that goes with it, and generally you are happy to. However if you don't need that complexity you don't want it. The average person uses 5% of the features of there word processor - but there is very little overlap between any two random users, and each wants the other 95% they don't use hidden (or perhaps 90% as there is another 5% they will need or think they will need) Gnome seems to be focusing on the 1% of features that are common to everyone, which means you can't get your 5%.

Note that I've always been a KDE user...

Re: Free software scares normal people

#156

Post by ido »

meanfield wrote: post #147

There are literally thousands of wrappers for ffmpeg (other examples: imagemagick, ghostscript) that do exactly that. E.g. all commercial and dozens of open source video converters. So there is no lack of simple software for people who know little about the problem they're trying to solve (e.g. playing a downloaded mkv their shitty preinstalled video player doesn't accept), the problem is rather one of knowing that o…

Does it? I often ask ChatGPT such things and specifying I want free software options is enough (it often mentions which options are and aren’t free on its own).

Re: Free software scares normal people

#157

Post by doublerabbit »

fschuett wrote: post #127

> Free audio editing software that requires hours of learning to be useful for simple tasks. To be fair, the Audacity UX designer made a massive video about the next UX redesign and how he tried to get rid of "modes" and the "Audacity says no" problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYM3TWf_G38 So this problem should get better in the future. Good UX (doesn't necessarily have to have a flashy UI, but just a good UX)…

UX is the biggest debt.

You're making application for yourself and somewhere down pipeline you decide that it could benefit others, so you make it open-source.

People growl at you "It's ugly UX but nice features" when it was originally designed for your own tastes. The latter, people growl at you for "not having X feature, but nice UX".

Your own personal design isn't one-fits-all and designing mocks takes effort. Mental strain and stress; pleasing folks is hard. You now continue developing and redesign the foundations.

A theming engine you think. This becomes top-priority as integration of such becomes a PITA when trying to couple it with future features later.

That itself becomes a black hole in how & schematics. So now you're forever doomed in creating something you never desired for the people who will probably never use it. This causes your project to fail but at least you have multiple revisions of the theming engine. Or you strike it lucky and gain a volunteer.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#158

Post by galagawinkle489 »

some_furry wrote: post #122
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Graphic designers and artists get ripped off, all the time ; frequently, by nerds, who tend to do so, in a manner that insults the value of the artist's work. It's difficult to get those kinds of creatives to donate their time (trust me on this, I'm always trying). I'm an ex-artist, and I'm a nerd. I can definitively say that creating good designs, is at least as difficult as creating good software, but seldom makes…

This is a weird thread for me to read, as someone who a) works primarily with developer tooling (and not even GUI tooling, I write cryptography stuff usually!), b) is very active in a vibrant community of artists that care about nerd software projects. I don't, as a rule, ever ask artists to contribute for free, but I still occasionally get gifted art from kind folks. (I'm more than happy to commission them for one-o…

Why should they work for pay on free software? Nobody expects to be paid to work on the software itself. Yet artists expect to be treated differently.

If it is your job, then go do it as a job. But we all have jobs. Free software is what we do in our free time. Artists don't seem to have this distinction. They expect to be paid to do a hobby.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#159

Post by hydrogen7800 »

pwg wrote: post #131
ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on. "type ffmpeg, then hyphen i then the input filename then the output filename". I would've understood this when I was 8. Because I was super smart? No, because I was making a genuine effort.

The portion you've overlooked is there is an entire population of users out there who have never seen, nor used, a command line, and telling them to "just type this out" ignores all the background command line knowledge necessary to successfully "just type this out": 1) They have to know how to get to a command line somewhere/how (most of this group of users would be stymied right here and get no further along); 2) T…

This describes me somewhat. I use FEA software and only recently started using it to execute jobs in CLI. I still trip over changing directories. Fortunately notepad++ has an option to open CLI with the filepath of the currently open file. I also didn't know right-click is paste in CLI. Don't use ctrl+c accidentally. But ctrl+v does work in powershell (sometimes?). "Error, command not found" is puzzling to me. Where does the software need to live relative to the directory I am using? This is all still very foreign to me, and working in CLI feels like flipping light switches in a dark room.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#160

Post by zahlman »

DrewADesign wrote: post #29
squeedles wrote: post #10

Good article, but the reasoning is wrong. It isn't easy to make a simple interface in the same way that Pascal apologized for writing a long letter because he didn't have time to write a shorter one. Implementing the UI for one exact use case is not much trouble, but figuring out what that use case is difficult. And defending that use case from the line of people who want "that + this little extra thing", or the "I j…

Overall, the development world does not intuitively understand the difficulty of creating good interfaces (for people that aren’t developers.) In dev work, the complexity is obvious, and that makes it easy for outsiders to understand— they look at the code we’re writing and say “wow you can read that?!” I think that can give developers a mistaken impression that other peoples work is far less complex than it is. With…

> I think that can give developers a mistaken impression that other peoples work is far less complex than it is.

Not at all. Talented human artists still impress me as doing the same level of deep "wizardry" that programmers are stereotyped with.

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