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987654321 / 123456789

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Re: 987654321 / 123456789

#41

Post by OldGreenYodaGPT »

Definitions: denom(b) = (b^b - b^2 + b - 1) / (b - 1)^2 num(b) = (b^b(b - 2) + 1) / (b - 1)^2

Exact relation: num(b) - (b - 2)denom(b) = b - 1

Therefore: num(b) / denom(b) = (b - 2) + (b - 1)^3 / (b^b - b^2 + b - 1) [exact]

Geometric expansion: Let a = b^2 - b + 1. 1 / (b^b - b^2 + b - 1) = (1 / b^b) * 1 / (1 - a / b^b) = (1 / b^b) * sum_{k>=0} (a / b^b)^k

So: num(b) / denom(b) = (b - 2) • (b - 1)^3 / b^b • (b - 1)^3 * a / b^{2b} • (b - 1)^3 * a^2 / b^{3b} • …

Practical approximation: num(b) / denom(b) ≈ (b - 2) + (b - 1)^3 / b^b

Exact error: Let T_exact = (b - 1)^3 / (b^b - b^2 + b - 1) Let T_approx = (b - 1)^3 / b^b

Absolute error: T_exact - T_approx = (b - 1)^3 * (b^2 - b + 1) / [ b^b * (b^b - b^2 + b - 1) ]

Relative error: (T_exact - T_approx) / T_exact = (b^2 - b + 1) / b^b

Sign: The approximation with denominator b^b underestimates the exact value.

Digit picture in base b: (b - 1)^3 has base-b digits (b - 3), 2, (b - 1). Dividing by b^b places those three digits starting b places after the radix point.

Examples: base 10: 8 + 9^3 / 10^10 = 8.0000000729 base 9: 7 + 8^3 / 9^9 = 7.000000628 in base 9 base 8: 6 + 7^3 / 8^8 = 6.00000527 in base 8

num(b) / denom(b) equals (b - 2) + (b - 1)^3 / (b^b - b^2 + b - 1) exactly. Replacing the denominator by b^b gives a simple approximation with relative error exactly (b^2 - b + 1) / b^b.

Re: 987654321 / 123456789

#43

Post by gowld »

madcaptenor wrote: post #10
Stolpe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate? Why does 0.987654 simplify to 80/81 and 0.123456 to 10/81?

.123456... = x + 2 x^2 + 3 x^3 + ... with x = 1/10. Then you have (x + 2 x^2 + 3 x^3 + ...) = (x + x^2 + x^3 + x^4 + ...) + (x^2 + x^3 + x^4 + x^5 + ...) + (x^3 + x^4 + x^5 + x^6 + ...) (count the number of occurrences of each power of x^n on the right-hand side) and from the sum of a geometric series the RHS is x/(1-x) + x^2/(1-x) + x^3/(1-x) + ..., which itself is a geometric series and works out to x/(1-x)^2. Then…

Don't need the clutter of infinite series and polynomials:

    1/9 = 0.1111...

    1/81 = 1/9 * 1/9 = 0.111... * 0.111... =

    Sum of:
       0.0111...
       0.00111...
       0.000111...
       ...
    
    =  0.012345...

Re: 987654321 / 123456789

#44

Post by jedberg »

This was by far the most interesting part to me. I've never considered that code and proofs can be so complementary. It would be great if someone did this for all math proofs!

"Why include a script rather than a proof? One reason is that the proof is straight-forward but tedious and the script is compact.

A more general reason that I give computational demonstrations of theorems is that programs are complementary to proofs. Programs and proofs are both subject to bugs, but they’re not likely to have the same bugs. And because programs made details explicit by necessity, a program might fill in gaps that aren’t sufficiently spelled out in a proof."

Re: 987654321 / 123456789

#46

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

Let's prove it.

In general, sum(x^k, k=1…n) = x(1-x^n)/(1-x).

Then sum(kx^(k-1), k=1…n) = d/dx sum(x^k, k=1…n) = d/dx (x(1-x^n))/(1-x) = (nx^(n+1) - (n+1)x^n + 1)/(1-x)^2

With x=b, n=b-1, the numerator as defined in TFA is n = sum(kb^(k-1), k=1…b-1) = ((b-2)b^b + 1)/(1-b)^2 = ((b-2)b^b + 1)/(1-b)^2.

And the denominator is:

d = sum((b-k)b^(k-1), k=1..b-1) = sum(b^k, k=1..b-1) - sum(kb^(k-1), k=1..b-1) = (b-b^b)/(1-b) - n = (b^b - b^2 + b - 1)/(1-b)^2.

Then, n-(b-1) = (b^(b+1) - 2b^b - b^3 + 3b^2 - 3b +2)/(1-b)^2.

And d(b-2) = the same thing.

So n = d(b-2) + b - 1, whence n/d = b-2 + (b-1)/d.

We also see that the dominant term in d will be b^b/(1-b)^2 which grows like b^(b-2), which is why the fractional part of n/d is 1 over that.

I disagree with the author that a script works as well as a proof. Scripts are neither constructive nor exhaustive.

Re: 987654321 / 123456789

#47

Post by jph00 »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #46

Let's prove it. In general, sum(x^k, k=1…n) = x(1-x^n)/(1-x). Then sum(kx^(k-1), k=1…n) = d/dx sum(x^k, k=1…n) = d/dx (x(1-x^n))/(1-x) = (nx^(n+1) - (n+1)x^n + 1)/(1-x)^2 With x=b, n=b-1, the numerator as defined in TFA is n = sum(kb^(k-1), k=1…b-1) = ((b-2)b^b + 1)/(1-b)^2 = ((b-2)b^b + 1)/(1-b)^2. And the denominator is: d = sum((b-k)b^(k-1), k=1..b-1) = sum(b^k, k=1..b-1) - sum(kb^(k-1), k=1..b-1) = (b-b^b)/(1-b)…

The author does not say a script works as well as a proof.

Re: 987654321 / 123456789

#49

Post by layer8 »

jedberg wrote: post #44

This was by far the most interesting part to me. I've never considered that code and proofs can be so complementary. It would be great if someone did this for all math proofs! "Why include a script rather than a proof? One reason is that the proof is straight-forward but tedious and the script is compact. A more general reason that I give computational demonstrations of theorems is that programs are complementary to…

This is misleading in that the (Curry–Howard) correspondence is between proofs and the static typing of programs. A bug in a proof therefore corresponds to a bug in the static typing of a program (or to the type system of the programming language being unsound), not to any other program bug.

(Also: complementary != complimentary.)

Re: 987654321 / 123456789

#50

Post by [deleted] »

jedberg wrote: post #44

This was by far the most interesting part to me. I've never considered that code and proofs can be so complementary. It would be great if someone did this for all math proofs! "Why include a script rather than a proof? One reason is that the proof is straight-forward but tedious and the script is compact. A more general reason that I give computational demonstrations of theorems is that programs are complementary to…

[deleted]
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