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Keep Android Open

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Re: Keep Android Open

#781

Post by hyperbolablabla »

bayindirh wrote: post #383
state_less wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in '99 Linux didn't run Excel/Word/Powerpoint or most games, but I ran it anyway. What others call showstoppers are for me inconveniences. I have a motorolla edge 2024 that I'll load whatever open source phone OS will work well enough to place calls and browse the web. I'll keep another phone for the rare times some corporate/government overlord requires it. Many folks who refuse to use smartphones, similarly ow…

> Feel free to complain, but don't forget you can make choices. Of course. I can make a choice. When the choice is between being able to login to secure services with my SIM embedded e-signature, use mobile banking and conduct official business and not being able to do any of these things, making choices are easy. Running Linux on desktop is easy mode when compared to phones, and yes, I started using Linux on desktop…

Exactly - if I don't have the Monzo banking app on my phone, I can't do _any_ banking.

Thinking about that now... That's not great.

Re: Keep Android Open

#782

Post by zkmon »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #668
zkmon wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we must let someone or some crowd dictate what our basic needs are. That crowd is part of our world. If we stick to our bows and arrows they come with canons and horses. Argh!

That worked fine before agricultural revolution. Since then, if you stick to your bows and arrows, you get sidelined and lose access to benefits of society and civilization.

If it forces you to keep running with more and more speed just to stay where you are, I wouldn't call it as "benefits of society and civilization". A lot of what we call as progress is a forced transformation of basic needs for the gains of business and politics not people.

Even the healthcare, which everyone thinks as a "benefit" of the progress, only resulted in having lopsided demographic pyramid with countries full of old people. I can't think of single scientific result benefiting the human race in its evolutionary goals.

Re: Keep Android Open

#785

Post by anon84873628 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #668
zkmon wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we must let someone or some crowd dictate what our basic needs are. That crowd is part of our world. If we stick to our bows and arrows they come with canons and horses. Argh!

That worked fine before agricultural revolution. Since then, if you stick to your bows and arrows, you get sidelined and lose access to benefits of society and civilization.

Interesting to consider this thread with regards to the Amish. They noped off the tech treadmill but it requires a highly cohesive religiously centered society to maintain the necessary critical mass.

It's a lot harder to make an insular society which is self sufficient just to the degree necessary to create an open source smartphone :-p

Technology brings tradeoffs. Conformity in some regards, but it also opens up many new and varied ways of living.

Re: Keep Android Open

#786

Post by codedokode »

gf000 wrote: post #271
andrepd wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Before buying a smartphone I tried to find an inexpensive model that supports open source OS, but I couldn't. What open OS support is ether expensive Pixels, or outdated models. You can buy a refurbished Pixel 5 for less than 200$. Great screen, great camera, 5G, the works. It's definitely not an "outdated" device, and it runs Graphene or Lineage with minimal hassle.

You can get a new Pixel 8 for ~500$, I would say that has a very decent price to value, and will be supported for longer.

It's hard to find. Pixel 8 costs $670 here, and the cheapest Pixel is 9a for $470. At this price, it is overpriced. Pixel 8 has 8 GB RAM, Samsung A16 with 8 GB costs just $230. It's almost 3 times cheaper. And Samsung supports 2 SIM cards, unlike Pixel, so you can have, for example, one SIM for Internet and another for calls.

Re: Keep Android Open

#787

Post by codedokode »

andrepd wrote: post #260
codedokode wrote: post #29

Before buying a smartphone I tried to find an inexpensive model that supports open source OS, but I couldn't. What open OS support is ether expensive Pixels, or outdated models. The solution, I think, would be a regulation that forbids manufacturers of any chip or device CPU from making obstacles to reprogramming the device (using fuses, digital signatures, encryption etc). So if you buy a device with CPU and writabl…

> Before buying a smartphone I tried to find an inexpensive model that supports open source OS, but I couldn't. What open OS support is ether expensive Pixels, or outdated models. You can buy a refurbished Pixel 5 for less than 200$. Great screen, great camera, 5G, the works. It's definitely not an "outdated" device, and it runs Graphene or Lineage with minimal hassle.

The battery probably lost its capacity in 3-4 years since release.

Re: Keep Android Open

#788

Post by Arainach »

NewJazz wrote: post #761
tredre3 wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kingsoft recently announced that WPS Office has 620M MAU users, the bulk of which is in China. Microsoft has even more Office users in China https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-microsoft-office-rival... So if China has heard of LibreOffice, they clearly didn't like what they've heard...

So, because competitors have traction nobody has heard of libre office? That's not a logical statement.

You can't prove a negative. Usage numbers tell the real story. Either people haven't heard of it, or, worse for proponents, they have heard of it and have decided it's not good enough.

Re: Keep Android Open

#789

Post by fsflover »

layer8 wrote: post #537
Flere-Imsaho wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not managed to read all the comments in this post, so apologies if I'm repeating other people, I also have only a passing understanding of how Google Play works, but couldn't we have: Linux based phone, running Anbox to support Android apps running within containers. Effort would then have to put into support Play APIs within Anbox. Not a small amount of work, but I compare it to the state of Linux 20 years ago…

Google would eventually manage to completely block that. For example, have the app be encrypted for download from the Play Store for the individual Google-approved device key, and the device’s firmware will decrypt and run the app in a way so that the user can’t get hold of the decrypted app blob, and hence can’t possibly run it in any other (non-Google-approved) environment. The bottom line is, the only way to ensur…

The regulation will only work if it is clear that an alternative is viable and usable. This is why it's important to use GNU/Linux on mobile today.

Re: Keep Android Open

#790

Post by fsflover »

t_mann wrote: post #581
TeMPOraL wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

Stupid question: couldn't we work around that with some VM/container-style solution? They could probably find ways to lock it down with TPM/TEE and similar, but in today's landscape it should be possible if you're willing to accept the performance and battery cost. And if it does get traction, there'll also be more push to keep open alternatives viable. Giving in without a fight is the only way to ensure you'll lose.

Yes, some banking apps work on Waydroid.
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