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Minecraft removing obfuscation in Java Edition

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Re: Minecraft removing obfuscation in Java Edition

#191

Post by abtinf »

Loughla wrote: post #187
gretch wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2004 I played an MMO game on a pirated server. The owner of the server somehow got a version of the server binary, and used a hex editor (!) to add new features to the binary over time. It's the closest I've ever see to someone literally being one of the hackers from Matrix, literally staring at hexadecimal and changing chars one at a time

That's a level of dedication that I have never devoted to anything in my life. That's energy that could change the world if harnessed correctly.

It did change the world - it made it better for players of the game.

Re: Minecraft removing obfuscation in Java Edition

#192

Post by chillfox »

krackers wrote: post #61
NelsonMinar wrote: post #51

It's extraordinary to me that Minecraft is both the game that has the most robust mod community out there and that the modders were working from obfuscated, decompiled Java binaries. With elaborate tooling to deobfuscate and then reobfuscate using the same mangled names. For over a decade! What dedication.

Me too. Having only a vague familiarity with the game, I thought that mods were using some official plugin system. I had no idea that minecraft modders (presumably kids/teens?) were not only reverse engineering things but also creating an entire ecosystem to work around proguard.

While I don't doubt that some mods are created by teens, just under half of Minecraft players are adults.

Re: Minecraft removing obfuscation in Java Edition

#193

Post by int_19h »

gretch wrote: post #180
NelsonMinar wrote: post #51

It's extraordinary to me that Minecraft is both the game that has the most robust mod community out there and that the modders were working from obfuscated, decompiled Java binaries. With elaborate tooling to deobfuscate and then reobfuscate using the same mangled names. For over a decade! What dedication.

In 2004 I played an MMO game on a pirated server. The owner of the server somehow got a version of the server binary, and used a hex editor (!) to add new features to the binary over time. It's the closest I've ever see to someone literally being one of the hackers from Matrix, literally staring at hexadecimal and changing chars one at a time

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/DeHackEd

Re: Minecraft removing obfuscation in Java Edition

#194

Post by MobiusHorizons »

Quekid5 wrote: post #150
beachy wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First time I have heard of object-oriented obfuscation. I get it, but in general I don't get the OO hate. It's all about the problem domain imo. I can't imagine building something like a graphics framework without some subtyping. Unfortunately, people often use crap examples for OO. The worst is probably employee, where employee and contractor are subtypes of worker, or some other chicanery like that. Of course in th…

> I can't imagine building something like a graphics framework without some subtyping. While React technically uses some OOP, in practice it's a pretty non-OOP way do UI. Same with e.g. ImGUI (C++), Clay (C). I suppose for the React case there's still an OOP thing called the DOM underneath, but that's pretty abstracted. In practice most of the useful parts of OOP can be done with a "bag/record of functions". (Though…

React is most likely not what the author had in mind by a graphics framework. The browser implementation of the DOM or a desktop widget system is much more likely the idea.

Re: Minecraft removing obfuscation in Java Edition

#195

Post by rcxdude »

kg wrote: post #18
beeflet wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are asking for The Metaverse. Currently, the entire VRChat userbase. But you're right that there is not a large population of people willing to throw cash at it outside of a minority of virtual furries

Critically, VRChat works on desktop (though it's an inferior experience), and you can incrementally enhance your experience with it by doing things like webcam face/hand tracking instead of buying an expensive headset.

It's also very highly customisable without being monetized out the wazoo, allows you to host your own servers, and in general avoids the incredibly bland corporate image that meta projects.

(Meta, I think, fails to understand that the people that most want a virtual space to interact with, to the point of putting up with the limitations of VR tech, mostly want to not look like regular people in that space, because they keep pushing a vision that seems to be a uniform 'normality' even more extreme than the real world)

Re: Minecraft removing obfuscation in Java Edition

#196

Post by andai »

beachy wrote: post #137
userbinator wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More proof that you don't need the source code to modify software. Then again, Java has always been easy to decompile, and IMHO the biggest obstacle to understanding is the "object-oriented obfuscation" that's inherent in large codebases even when you have the original source.

First time I have heard of object-oriented obfuscation. I get it, but in general I don't get the OO hate. It's all about the problem domain imo. I can't imagine building something like a graphics framework without some subtyping. Unfortunately, people often use crap examples for OO. The worst is probably employee, where employee and contractor are subtypes of worker, or some other chicanery like that. Of course in th…

Tried to modify one boolean in a codebase a few weeks ago and I had to go thru like 12 levels of indirection to find "the code that actually runs".

Re: Minecraft removing obfuscation in Java Edition

#197

Post by nxobject »

I got my start coding by modding Minecraft - I added a quest system; one day I wanted to add dialogue trees and slowly turn it into a RPG. I hope future generations will always have this wonderful opportunity, this low barrier to entry opportunity to do substantial personal-passion mods.

Re: Minecraft removing obfuscation in Java Edition

#198

Post by sodapopcan »

tmtvl wrote: post #185
sodapopcan wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I love Minecraft's music. I do listen to it intentionally outside of the game, but it's not quite the same as having it suddenly start up during gameplay. The first I heard of someone "obviously turning off the music" was, I kid you not, yesterday, and now I'm hearing it for a second time today. Would woulda thunk!

There are soundtracks I listen to outside of their games: Castlevania Symphony of the Night, Chrono Trigger, Shadowgate,... but Minecraft would be way near the end of the list. The music is too generic to be worth the attention, yet too present to work as ambiance. It kinda reminds me of Silent Hill's soundtrack.

"Generic"? Ouch, lol.

Re: Minecraft removing obfuscation in Java Edition

#199

Post by hackthemack »

nickstinemates wrote: post #186
hackthemack wrote: post #48

I much prefer just writing stuff for Luanti (formerly minetest). You can, pretty much, get the Minecraft experience by downloading mods. Or just use the VoxeLibre game mod. https://content.luanti.org/packages/Wuzzy/mineclone2/ The mods are written in lua and you can find the source code for most of them. One I like is Zoonami which turns the experience into a Pokemon like game. https://content.luanti.org/packages/isa…

does something like AllTheMods 10 exist for Luanti? Or Meatballcraft?

The Luanti client lets you search and install mods from content.luanti.org

It differentiates between mods and games. A game changes the core game to be much more different, but sometimes a game is just a collection of some other mods.

https://content.luanti.org/packages/?type=game

Personally, I find it more fun to just go and click on about 6 to 8 mods that are interesting and see how the game goes.

https://content.luanti.org/packages/?type=mod

Some of my picks are...

https://content.luanti.org/packages/ElCeejo/animalia/

https://content.luanti.org/packages/random-wizard/gear_up/

https://content.luanti.org/packages/TenPlus1/farming/

https://content.luanti.org/packages/FreeLikeGNU/goblins/

Re: Minecraft removing obfuscation in Java Edition

#200

Post by James_K »

smlacy wrote: post #158
James_K wrote: post #118

I wonder what Minecraft sales are like these days. I'd imagine most of the people who are going to buy it already have. Makes me wonder if they'll ever open the whole thing up.

Just think of the untapped market of fresh 9 year olds who've never seen/played the game before. It's infinite, there will always be more people who have never played Minecraft.

They're playing Roblox and Fortnite these days, both free of course.
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