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Keep Android Open

keepandroidopen.org

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541–550 of 907 posts

Re: Keep Android Open

#541

Post by shwaj »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #453

This is likely the result of one of the most idiotic and bad rulings to come out of recent tech lawsuits. It's so painfully brain damaged and yet somehow has seemed to largely fly under the radar. Google was found to have a monopoly on android with the play store (even though you can side load other stores), Apple was found to not have a monopoly with the app store. OK. But that is not the really bad part, the really…

Yes, I recall HN commenters of the time predicting this exact outcome as a result.

Re: Keep Android Open

#542

Post by jb1991 »

array_key_first wrote: post #331
rafaelmn wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100$ a year for a dev in Sweden - that's like money you wouldn't notice if it got lost in your pockets - and I am sure it cuts down on spammers and covers administrative cost. I have no problem with a store having a small admission fee - that's perfectly reasonable and they do have operational costs. It would be nice if they had some way to waive the fee for popular OSS to garner some god will with the devs. Taking a…

> and I am sure it cuts down on spammers Okay, just so we're all on the same page: that 100 dollar fee IS NOT for publishing your app. That's not what that is. That's a separate thing with its own costs. That 100 dollars is just the fee to even make an app. Even if your iPhone never has an Internet connection. And even if you literally load the app via USB to your iPhone only. It's just extortion. It cannot be justif…

> That 100 dollars is just the fee to even make an app. Even if your iPhone never has an Internet connection. And even if you literally load the app via USB to your iPhone only.

This is incorrect.

You make it sound like you cannot even get started unless you pay a $100 fee. You do not need to pay Apple any fees to make an app and put it on your own device. You have to pay the fee once you want to distribute it on the App Store.

Re: Keep Android Open

#543

Post by viktorcode »

MostlyStable wrote: post #514
viktorcode wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. Those work perfectly via a browser, on any platform where the browser can run. As long as a hypothetical open OS has a browser capable with bog standard moder…

I tried to log into a banking website on a full desktop browser recently, one that I had previously used with a password. It literally would not let me login until I downloaded their app and set up a passkey. That is now the _only_ way for me to access those accounts. Presumably, I could call in, though I wouldn't be surprised if the person on the phone also asked that I download the app in order to verify my identit…

There are banks that do not work via a browser. But no one prevents them from doing that. It's their conscious choice, not a technology limitation

Re: Keep Android Open

#544

Post by giancarlostoro »

pyeri wrote: post #143
jeena wrote: post #58

Back in the 2007 or when it came out in Sweden I bought the iPhone and started developing for it. This was cool, new and exciting and it was fine as long as my company was paying the $100 fee every year. But then I switched jobs and worked at a company which produced mostly open source code. Suddenly I would have to pay $100 every year just to be able to put my own software on the phone ... This is why I switched to…

This situation would have been avoided if we, as community of engineers, had insisted on full and uncompromised open source (Stallmanist or GPL way) right from the start instead of going the ESR way of half-hearted open source where it's technically open but corporates get to have a free lunch and make abuses. Like most coders, I also prefer the permissive MIT/Apache/BSD licensing for most software projects but incid…

Google is the modern Microsoft spiritual successor to Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. Look at all the people who use gmail, youtube, etc all from a web app that Google wholly controls.

Re: Keep Android Open

#545

Post by dangus »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #435
dangus wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo, this right here. Linux desktop wasn’t a daily driver until one day it was. Although the only problem with this strategy is that Linux got that way because of a lot of private companies that actually wanted that. Valve didn’t want to be locked in with Microsoft. Many of Microsoft’s direct competitors also don’t want to be locked in. IBM famously switched to Mac, Google has been using Mac and Linux workstations…

It's a transient state. Food for thought: how much of Linux being a daily driver depends on you having a modern Android or iOS smartphone ? If you need a locked down phone that passes remote attestation to authenticate yourself to a remote service, then whatever you use to access the service UI doesn't really matter: the only device that's necessary to have to use the service is the one you don't fully control, and w…

Interesting thought. I’d say a low to medium amount but you’re making a good point here.

Most services offer simple SMS two factor, and then if they offer an upgrade to Authenticator or passkey then I have no iOS/Android dependency.

My bank’s website works almost the same as the phone app, I think the only difference is the lack of mobile check deposit (but nobody’s writing checks anymore).

Some services like Venmo are most popular on apps but still have a website.

My remaining hooks are:

- iCloud shared photo libraries with my family. I can use those on iCloud.com but it’s a bit more of a pain. My paid iCloud storage has been migrated to more open alternatives.

- AirTags and Find My. There just isn’t a competitor that’s anywhere near as good. It’s thankfully not a very necessary product.

- Apple Watch. (AirPods actually work great on Linux, btw, even if they are missing some functionality)

- Apple Home. I could migrate this to Home Assistant.

- Apple Wallet. This is mostly convenience. Most things that use it have some kind of alternative, like printed boarding passes. But there’s…

- Ticketmaster. The mobile website tells me I must download the app or add to mobile wallet. Barcodes are dynamic and screenshots don't work. I think the only alternative is to go to the box office before the event which can be very annoying.

Re: Keep Android Open

#546

Post by state_less »

bayindirh wrote: post #433
state_less wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I booted Slackware from a pile of floppies back then. I thought the Germans had a pretty good offering with SuSE at the time. Look I get it, even back then, most folks felt Windows was the obvious choice (and still do) for their jobs and so on. Sometimes you have to make do with with the unappealing choice in front of you. For a little more context, my cracked screen iPhone can still do banking or whatever, but I cho…

Slackware always brings out the inner teen in me. I feel giddy like in the old days. I need to install and maintain it somewhere some time, just for kicks. I support FOSS wholeheartedly, and believe that it's possible to have a device which is completely Free (not Open but, Free) from hardware design to firmware and software. On the other hand, there are some nasty realities which bring hard questions. For example, r…

For radios, the general idea of building radios to a spec and having them certified to be sold in country works pretty well most of the time. It might be nice to have a phone with plenty of flexibility on the radio, but I think most folks would be happy just to connect and send work-a-day packets OTA unencumbered by additional restrictions.

It seems like a hardware security device could act similarly to the radio in that the general OS can ask for service (e.g. a signature), but not have access to the internals of the MCU. I don't see why these systems need to be opaque either, in fact it'd be nice to know what is running on the security enclave or LTE radio, even if folks aren't generally meant to access/modify the internals.

It'll be interesting to see how things develop. In my case, I am looking for more experimentation with the smartphone form factor. I'd like to see better options in the market.

Re: Keep Android Open

#547

Post by luisml77 »

qwertox wrote: post #534
luisml77 wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux, even though you may think is a massive project and you may be right in some regards, doesn't require massive amounts of capital, human resources and paid developers, etc. to build it. Android on the other hand is developed by thousands of engineers and is a much larger project in terms of monetary investment than Linux. Linux was essentially built by a single guy. Android could never have been built by a singl…

My apologies for not being precise: Linux/GNU and all the BSD variants.

My point still remains, none of these projects require tens of thousands of paid developers to exist. They also don't provide nearly as much value as Android does. Billions of smartphones use Android. Linux is not even used by regular people. And its precisely because it didn't have the same level of development MacOS and Windows had with many orders of magnitude more PAID engineers working on those

Re: Keep Android Open

#548

Post by marcosdumay »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #323
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

IMO, we should be demanding more from the banks and governments, not that they keep android open.

We should demand that they support every platform. Or at least every platform that adopts some sandboxing model.

Re: Keep Android Open

#549

Post by jobs_throwaway »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #418
tinfoilhatter wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about when your smartphone is required to verify your identity so you can work / earn a paycheck? What about when it's required in order for you to engage in commerce? We're headed down a very slippery slope and the destination is a very dystopian reality where those in power can prevent someone from participating in society on a whim. I believe the destination has previously been described as the beast system o…

> What about when your smartphone is required to verify your identity so you can work / earn a paycheck? What about when it's required in order for you to engage in commerce? In some cases, it already is. We're already far on the path you described, and there is no choice to make on it, not for individuals. To stop this, we need to somehow make these technologies socially unacceptable. We need to walk back on cyberse…

Well put. Most SWEs on this very site probably require a smartphone for id verification for work. Acting like that is a personal choice is not useful

Re: Keep Android Open

#550

Post by superkuh »

liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Because you cannot own or operate a cellphone. The cell phone modem is not licensed or controlled by you. It cannot be, it is the telecommunication company's. And this reality is intruding more and more into everyday life. You will not be allowed to control your smartphone. They are terrible computers because of this. A smartphone's legal purpose is now basically just banking, shopping, and navigation. Other things that interfere with commerce will not be allowed.

Just use your phone as a hotspot with a real computer for computing that you can and do own.

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