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Tinkering is a way to acquire good taste

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Re: Tinkering is a way to acquire good taste

#281

Post by cyrialize »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #95

> I have come to understand that there are two kinds of people, those who do things only if it helps them achieve a goal, and those who do things just because. I think in this age of vibe coding where anyone can code anything, the discriminating factor between two developers, at a technical level, just comes down to "good taste" (lots of other more important factors, too, like a good human to work with). And like the…

I absolutely agree.

If you look at my github, you might think I don't program all that much.

If you look at my ~/Code folder on my PC, you might think I program too much.

Tinkering with fun little projects has made me a better programmer and understand my language (Ruby) much better.

Re: Tinkering is a way to acquire good taste

#282

Post by nonethewiser »

The author gives several examples of tinkering. Tweaking mouse sensitivity in FPS, installing a linux distro, experimenting with windows managers, changing mechanical keyboard caps etc.

Then he looks at one specific example of tinkering, the IDE, and sorts people as tinkerers based on that.

>There are plenty of people who still use the VSCode terminal as their default terminal, do not know what vim bindings are, GitHub desktop rather than the cli (at the very least). I’m not saying these are bad things necessarily, just that this should be the minimum, not the median.

Couldn't someone not tinker with an IDE and still tinker with other things? I mean clearly you dont have to tinker with everything that can possibly be tinkered with, right? What is it about the IDE that makes it necessary to tinker with?

It seems like this was the main motivation for the article and then it got a bit over-abstracted.

Re: Tinkering is a way to acquire good taste

#283

Post by MangoToupe »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #127
stavros wrote: post #74

Decades ago, an old friend told me "I became a coffee expert, I learned everything there is to learn about beans, the ways to prepare them, the chemistry that goes into it, and now I can only enjoy a cup of coffee prepared by the most expensive machines from the most expensive beans. The shit part is that I enjoy it just as much as I enjoyed my shitty supermarket coffee back when I didn't know anything about coffee."…

I never enjoyed shitty coffee. I never enjoyed shitty chocolate or chocolate flavored things like cakes. Until I was 30-something I thought I just didn't like coffee or chocolate. Then one day I had actually proper coffee, and I discovered that good coffee isn't just some imperceptably theoretically better version of regular coffee that snobs are basically just faking being sophisticated for show. They are two entire…

I mean it's even better to not enjoy things in the first place. You're happier with less.

Re: Tinkering is a way to acquire good taste

#284

Post by MangoToupe »

ehnto wrote: post #203
Brian_K_White wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never enjoyed shitty coffee. I never enjoyed shitty chocolate or chocolate flavored things like cakes. Until I was 30-something I thought I just didn't like coffee or chocolate. Then one day I had actually proper coffee, and I discovered that good coffee isn't just some imperceptably theoretically better version of regular coffee that snobs are basically just faking being sophisticated for show. They are two entire…

Are you from the US by chance? I only ask because specifically for chocolate and coffee, I would consider the US baseline to be exceedingly average, even terrible. Even "okay" chocolate and coffee from other countries better known for food will blow it out of the water. The US does do excellent coffee, and excellent chocolate, but you have to seek it out. In a country like Italy or Australia the default, okay stuff i…

Is there any place on earth that has good coffee? Italy's coffee is horrible, even if they have quality machines to make it with. 99% of people will use "ille" or whatever that brand is, which is far worse than starbucks worst roast. Meanwhile I can wander down the street in the US and find better sourced and roasted beans than I could find anywhere in europe.

Re: Tinkering is a way to acquire good taste

#285

Post by nonethewiser »

saxelsen wrote: post #22

I used to resonate with the word "taste" as a distinguishing factor between good and bad quality, but a comment on HN some months ago about one of the many blog posts that talks about taste really nailed it: "Taste" is just the degree to which two people value the same things. When someone is rated as having "good taste" it just means that the person rating them values a lot of the same qualities. The more I thought…

I actually see no difference in the two definitions unless you also slide in the idea that things are more relative and less clearly good/bad with the second. That seems to be the natural implication and the real difference, more so than the shift to "valuing."

- a distinguishing factor between good and bad quality

- the degree to which two people value the same things

If we don't also accept that implication, then its just the same thing. People thinking good things are good vs people thinking bad things are good.

Re: Tinkering is a way to acquire good taste

#286

Post by cyrialize »

stavros wrote: post #74

Decades ago, an old friend told me "I became a coffee expert, I learned everything there is to learn about beans, the ways to prepare them, the chemistry that goes into it, and now I can only enjoy a cup of coffee prepared by the most expensive machines from the most expensive beans. The shit part is that I enjoy it just as much as I enjoyed my shitty supermarket coffee back when I didn't know anything about coffee."…

It sounds to me you're describing the feeling of being content, rather than having the least taste.

I prefer to look at things that way rather than not having taste. Some people really enjoy $600 headphones, while others don't really care.

I think everyone has some "taste" though, you don't really realize it until you compare experiences.

For me personally, having taste doesn't ruin my experience for anything - it just add more to things. And I still like the things I like, even if there is "less".

Using more expensive headphones and hearing instruments I've never heard before makes it fun and using $20 headphones is still fun because I'm still listening to music I like.

Re: Tinkering is a way to acquire good taste

#287

Post by gkoz »

stavros wrote: post #74

Decades ago, an old friend told me "I became a coffee expert, I learned everything there is to learn about beans, the ways to prepare them, the chemistry that goes into it, and now I can only enjoy a cup of coffee prepared by the most expensive machines from the most expensive beans. The shit part is that I enjoy it just as much as I enjoyed my shitty supermarket coffee back when I didn't know anything about coffee."…

How your friend enjoys coffee does not predict how you'll enjoy music? Getting wider ranges of experiences often is fun and worthwhile. Avoiding that to save a couple hundred bucks doesn't seem rational.

Re: Tinkering is a way to acquire good taste

#288

Post by xbar »

alwa wrote: post #279
stavros wrote: post #74

Decades ago, an old friend told me "I became a coffee expert, I learned everything there is to learn about beans, the ways to prepare them, the chemistry that goes into it, and now I can only enjoy a cup of coffee prepared by the most expensive machines from the most expensive beans. The shit part is that I enjoy it just as much as I enjoyed my shitty supermarket coffee back when I didn't know anything about coffee."…

I don’t know if it’s a counterpoint or not, but I both know and appreciate a lot about coffee and enjoy instant or—especially—that black tarry sludge at the bottom of the gas station carafe, the sort that’s getting ever harder to find. One doesn’t diminish the other, they’re different things. Similarly consider the people who build world-class systems in their day jobs, yet spend their weekends running Doom on potato…

I agree strongly.

I drink things that taste bad. No, not always. But when an option exists that I think might taste bad, I always choose it. Someone has determined that it is a worthy drink and unless I explore their thinking, I will never know whether or not I agree. Once explored, I have some data that I can use to compare with other implementations of such an horrific recipe. At once, I am a connoisseur of this awful thing.

Let me know if you are interested in the worst place to get a bean-paste mojito with a cactus apple sidecar. I still search for the best.

Re: Tinkering is a way to acquire good taste

#289

Post by nonethewiser »

Theofrastus wrote: post #214

I moved away from tinkering, ever since I had to juggle family, job, chores, and social contacts. I don't want to spend the little free time I have fixing broken configs. Instead of rolling my own self-build NAS / home server like I used to, I just have a Synology now. I moved back to Windows after I fcked my graphics driver on linux and didn't have enough time to fix it in a day or two. Still, I love the tinkering s…

For many things, tinkering is a hobby. Obsidian note keeping strategy is another one I see a lot. No thanks. I'll just brain dump into files in a flat directory and use search if I ever need to. Do whatever works for you but I'm not going to take notes in a way where my ability to take notes requires maintenance.

Re: Tinkering is a way to acquire good taste

#290

Post by alwa »

xbar wrote: post #288
alwa wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if it’s a counterpoint or not, but I both know and appreciate a lot about coffee and enjoy instant or—especially—that black tarry sludge at the bottom of the gas station carafe, the sort that’s getting ever harder to find. One doesn’t diminish the other, they’re different things. Similarly consider the people who build world-class systems in their day jobs, yet spend their weekends running Doom on potato…

I agree strongly. I drink things that taste bad. No, not always. But when an option exists that I think might taste bad, I always choose it. Someone has determined that it is a worthy drink and unless I explore their thinking, I will never know whether or not I agree. Once explored, I have some data that I can use to compare with other implementations of such an horrific recipe. At once, I am a connoisseur of this aw…

Why yes I am! Both of those sound suited to a deliciously wide range of interpretation. I’ll raise you a pair of excellent and abject chòu dòufu served within about 5 blocks of each other (oddly enough, in a Puerto Rican section of New York)…

It seems like, in most domains of aesthetic appreciation, it doesn’t take all THAT much “trying stuff” before you get off a “bad-to-good” axis and onto a “varieties of experience” plane… (mumble mumble decommodification etc)

Then again perhaps you and I are showing our hand as people whose aesthetic preferences are not to be trusted :)

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