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Keep Android Open

keepandroidopen.org

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Re: Keep Android Open

#391

Post by fidotron »

JBQ redeemed: https://www.greenbot.com/jbq-is-quitting-aosp/ (yes, 2013)

I regret having wasted a good part of my career supporting Google with the Android enterprise. They had some very good (technically and intentionally) people there, but it all got thoroughly corrupted.

With hindsight the only thing that kept them remotely honest was the Andy Rubin vs Sundar Pichai turf war, which at the time manifested as Android vs Chrome. Once that had a decided winner it was a recipe for serious trouble.

The only viable way forward for an open mobile OS is to fork Android as is. This is the only way to carry over anything resembling existing app support or all the work that goes into making a mobile OS actually work up to the level users expect. i.e. cameras through to hardware media CODECs and total system stability.

Re: Keep Android Open

#392

Post by Fnoord »

liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

I completely agree.

Google has been gradually becoming more restrictive on Android openness, slowly but surely strengtening the thumb screws.

On the long term, the best thing to happen is for them to bang make it proprietary [1] while it is still free and liberal. The shock effect will be big, and the initial changes big, too. Such will motivate the right people. Open source devs, governments, legislators, people with executive powers within other companies.

But Google is too sneakily clever for that. So they go slowly, gradually. There won't be a shock effect, or if it happens it'll be a done deal.

This is how you turn a country into fascism, too. Slowly but surely, and then bang. It is all the small steps beforehand which matter, and this is why the Execute Order 66 quote from Star Wars is so such a beautiful example in popular movie SF.

You can see how failed efforts for coups in democracies have failed recently because of checks and balances. South Korea is a recent example, but looking at the details it was a close call. In my opinion, the same was true for USA, and I don't know enough about the Brazil example.

[1] Yes, I realize Android is proprietary and AOSP is FOSS.

Re: Keep Android Open

#394

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

socksy wrote: post #85
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Abandoning Android for Linux is not viable for software developers who need to eat. We'll finally get our ecosystem diversity back when the next geopolitical happening happens and Google bans Chinese android apps on bullshit pretexts. Wait a few years more.

Why would that affect anything? The Chinese Android ecosystem is already split from the Google one.

> Why would that affect anything?

The Chinese will eventually find it easier to sell their Chinese ecosystem devices to the world instead of catering to Google and American three-letter agencies.

Re: Keep Android Open

#395

Post by codedokode »

thomc wrote: post #275
codedokode wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't want the bank to access my phone, so it doesn't matter that the app doesn't work, and in a weird case where you urgently need to transfer your money to scammers while not being at home, you can use bank's web app.

There are at least a couple of banks or credit card companies in the UK now that only offer mobile apps, as well as those now using push MFA with their apps for every large purchase. Recently I needed to install an app from the UK government to prove my identity via camera to renew my driving license, and that doesn't work in GrapheneOS either. I can do it in person (for now) but there is an extra fee.

All the banks I use, have a web app, although it can be somewhat limited, but I don't need any advanced functions anyway.

> as well as those now using push MFA with their apps for every large purchase.

Our banks use SMS OTP (not required for mobile app) for all operations - I assume otherwise the amount of fraud would be exorbitant.

> Recently I needed to install an app from the UK government to prove my identity via camera to renew my driving license, and that doesn't work in GrapheneOS either. I can do it in person (for now) but there is an extra fee.

Interesting that the government relies on a proprietary, foreign platform.

Re: Keep Android Open

#396

Post by vbezhenar »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #365
liendolucas wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Webapps solve this completely. You login to a service as we have been doing forever. And the control is still on their side when you use a webapp. Almost every single app that is on my phone can be a webapp.

Websites as platform can't solve a problem that's social in nature - that it's allowed and accepted for organizations to have such excessive, invasive levels of control. The parties I accuse of driving this problem didn't suddenly go rogue when smartphones happened. They always wanted this level of control (and much more) - they just couldn't get it until relevant technologies matured enough. I'm not speculating here…

My bank had website which I can log in and just use. It does not force me to install anything. I need to type username, password and SMS code, that's about it.

Re: Keep Android Open

#397

Post by markus_zhang »

How about linuxonphone.org and just dump all your financial/auth related apps to an old Android phone?

Actually, better, dumbphone.org and dump all financial/auth/chat apps to an old Android phone that costs some $200.

Re: Keep Android Open

#398

Post by deng »

codedokode wrote: post #29

Before buying a smartphone I tried to find an inexpensive model that supports open source OS, but I couldn't. What open OS support is ether expensive Pixels, or outdated models. The solution, I think, would be a regulation that forbids manufacturers of any chip or device CPU from making obstacles to reprogramming the device (using fuses, digital signatures, encryption etc). So if you buy a device with CPU and writabl…

Not sure what exactly you mean with "open source OS" and if Lineage counts as one in your book: it supports quite a few cheap and also fairly recent Motorola phones, which are also easy to unlock:

https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#motorola

For family, I just got a used Edge 30 Neo for ~100$ and put LineageOS on it, and it works like a charm. Phones like the Moto g84 go for even less and still can be bought new for a decent price.

Xiaomi would be even cheaper, but I would highly discourage getting one because the unlock process is plain ridiculous nowadays.

And as others have already noted, if you don't mind getting a phone that's a few years old, a used Pixel 5 is not expensive (still happily using a Pixel 4a and don't see why I would need to upgrade).

Re: Keep Android Open

#399

Post by vdfs »

1gn15 wrote: post #345
TeMPOraL wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

Bank apps: Use an ATM, or a second phone. Enterprise apps: Use a second phone, preferably paid for by work. Government apps: Use a second phone, or refuse to use it (since there's likely elderly whom are not on board yet). Copyrighted media: Piracy.

For bank apps, you can just use their website

Re: Keep Android Open

#400

Post by BeetleB »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #323
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

This.

Most of us do not want to carry two phones around. The reality is that there is strong utility for those non-open apps and they will never be replaced by open ones.

In some parts of the world, WhatsApp is as necessary as the phone itself. Official business is conducted via it.

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