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Keep Android Open

keepandroidopen.org

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Re: Keep Android Open

#351

Post by ecef9-8c0f-4374 »

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #343
liendolucas wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Webapps solve this completely. You login to a service as we have been doing forever. And the control is still on their side when you use a webapp. Almost every single app that is on my phone can be a webapp.

This works only as long as the webapp allows you to log in using a username/password and/or 2FA which is not tied to a smartphone app. More and more countries are moving to digital identity solutions, and while many of them offer hardware tokens as alternatives to apps, the future looks like one where smartphone apps will be only option.

Banking websites will tell you that you need 2FA. Of course you need to use not just any 2FA you need to use their app and of course you don't need a 2FA if you use the app directly for banking. My companys equity app does not even want to run on lineageos. At the moment it looks like a 2 phone will be necessary at some point.

Re: Keep Android Open

#352

Post by TeMPOraL »

1gn15 wrote: post #345
TeMPOraL wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

Bank apps: Use an ATM, or a second phone. Enterprise apps: Use a second phone, preferably paid for by work. Government apps: Use a second phone, or refuse to use it (since there's likely elderly whom are not on board yet). Copyrighted media: Piracy.

Which is exactly my point: once you apply these workarounds, you don't need a smartphone anymore.

Also: both banks and governments are pushing for 2FA with a mobile device being the primary, and in some cases the only, accepted second factor source.

Re: Keep Android Open

#353

Post by 9cb14c1ec0 »

liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

If people have to put the tiniest bit of effort into using a different platform, they won't. This is the sole problem with alternative platforms. I agree with you that the ideal solution would be to break away from Google entirely, either with a hard fork of Android, or something completely different. But you'll have to make the transition absolutely seamless for the masses, or it won't happen.

Re: Keep Android Open

#355

Post by Bewelge »

survirtual wrote: post #156
pyeri wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This situation would have been avoided if we, as community of engineers, had insisted on full and uncompromised open source (Stallmanist or GPL way) right from the start instead of going the ESR way of half-hearted open source where it's technically open but corporates get to have a free lunch and make abuses. Like most coders, I also prefer the permissive MIT/Apache/BSD licensing for most software projects but incid…

[flagged]

Can you explain how you mean this in the context of software?

What you describe sounds like the paradox of intolerance but I fail to see how that can be applied to free software.

Freedom in general: You can't have absolute freedom because that includes the freedom to take the freedom from others.

In software: You can't have absolutely free software because ... ? I fail to see how free software might infringe on the freedom of others.

Re: Keep Android Open

#356

Post by state_less »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #323
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

Back in '99 Linux didn't run Excel/Word/Powerpoint or most games, but I ran it anyway. What others call showstoppers are for me inconveniences.

I have a motorolla edge 2024 that I'll load whatever open source phone OS will work well enough to place calls and browse the web. I'll keep another phone for the rare times some corporate/government overlord requires it. Many folks who refuse to use smartphones, similarly own a smartphone they rarely use for systems that require them.

My recommendation is to put as little time and energy into closed, locked down platforms as you can. Feel free to complain, but don't forget you can make choices.

Re: Keep Android Open

#357

Post by ubertaco »

ecef9-8c0f-4374 wrote: post #351
ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works only as long as the webapp allows you to log in using a username/password and/or 2FA which is not tied to a smartphone app. More and more countries are moving to digital identity solutions, and while many of them offer hardware tokens as alternatives to apps, the future looks like one where smartphone apps will be only option.

Banking websites will tell you that you need 2FA. Of course you need to use not just any 2FA you need to use their app and of course you don't need a 2FA if you use the app directly for banking. My companys equity app does not even want to run on lineageos. At the moment it looks like a 2 phone will be necessary at some point.

Is there anything preventing use of something like Keepass vaults as your 2FA solution?

Re: Keep Android Open

#358

Post by fooqux »

1gn15 wrote: post #345
TeMPOraL wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

Bank apps: Use an ATM, or a second phone. Enterprise apps: Use a second phone, preferably paid for by work. Government apps: Use a second phone, or refuse to use it (since there's likely elderly whom are not on board yet). Copyrighted media: Piracy.

"just use a second phone" cannot be the answer because 99% of people will just scoff at that. Instead of buying a second phone, why not just buy one that works?

And that's to say nothing of the environmental impact.

Re: Keep Android Open

#359

Post by lilOnion »

What's the best resource to keep track of all efforts to make open source phone OSes?

I'm looking for a new phone and it's tough with the current state of things.

Also about contacting your government, what's the best approach? I'm in EU.

Re: Keep Android Open

#360

Post by microtonal »

surgical_fire wrote: post #205
microtonal wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, still 1/4th of the time my ThinkPad with Linux wakes with a Thunderbolt display connected it dies with a kernel panic deep in the code that handles DDC (no matter what kernel version). And the latest gen finger print scanner only works between 10-50% of the time depending on the day, humidity, etc., no matter hof often you re-enroll a fingerprint, enroll a fingerprint multiple times, etc. And the battery drains…

I had so many more issues running Windows over the years than Linux. BSODs were a common occurrence, and yearly fresh installs were a thing to keep my computer usable. I moved to Mint almost 4 years ago at this point, running it on a now fairly old Dell G5 from 2019. Runs as smoothly as ever. I had one problem during this 4 year run (botched update and OS wouldn't start). Logging to terminal and getting Timeshift to…

I think people tend to have double standards when it comes to Linux. People who run Linux generally choose to run Linux intentionally and are for that reason more willing to accept/overlook issues.

I have both Linux machines and Macs and Linux has always been objectively worse when it comes to driver and software issues. It's just has a large number of paper cuts.

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