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Keep Android Open

keepandroidopen.org

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331–340 of 907 posts

Re: Keep Android Open

#331

Post by array_key_first »

rafaelmn wrote: post #106
jeena wrote: post #58

Back in the 2007 or when it came out in Sweden I bought the iPhone and started developing for it. This was cool, new and exciting and it was fine as long as my company was paying the $100 fee every year. But then I switched jobs and worked at a company which produced mostly open source code. Suddenly I would have to pay $100 every year just to be able to put my own software on the phone ... This is why I switched to…

100$ a year for a dev in Sweden - that's like money you wouldn't notice if it got lost in your pockets - and I am sure it cuts down on spammers and covers administrative cost. I have no problem with a store having a small admission fee - that's perfectly reasonable and they do have operational costs. It would be nice if they had some way to waive the fee for popular OSS to garner some god will with the devs. Taking a…

> and I am sure it cuts down on spammers

Okay, just so we're all on the same page: that 100 dollar fee IS NOT for publishing your app. That's not what that is. That's a separate thing with its own costs.

That 100 dollars is just the fee to even make an app. Even if your iPhone never has an Internet connection. And even if you literally load the app via USB to your iPhone only.

It's just extortion. It cannot be justified. Apple does it because they can - there are zero technical reasons behind it.

Re: Keep Android Open

#332

Post by VikingCoder »

Please, just give users the ability to say whether they want this "extra safety" control on. (If it even is extra safety, but whatever.)

If they don't, they can sideload, and use F-Droid, and etc.

And then we can debate whether it should be default on, or default off, and how hard it should be to turn off.

Re: Keep Android Open

#333

Post by spacechild1 »

liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

We need both. Open source alternatives are great, but they don't replace tight regulation of large corporations. Just because Linux exists doesn't mean we can give Microsoft, Apple and Google free reign.

Re: Keep Android Open

#334

Post by jfengel »

Brendinooo wrote: post #298
throwaway75 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We accept everyone who accepts everyone. If we were to accept and enforce this rule, billions of followers of some major religions would not be eligible to be part of a free and open society.

What you quoted is just the person restating the paradox of tolerance. It's totally nonsensical once you get past "one-dimensonal evil" cases (or perhaps cases like software, a category is more narrowly and cleanly delineated). He's right that freedom requires restriction. The problem with the paradox of tolerance is that it masquerades as a meaningful principle while leaving the actual restrictions unnamed. P.S. it…

I don't think the Paradox of Tolerance intends to be a principle. It is a statement of the problem, for which principles could be proposed.

If there is anything prescriptive to it, it's the implication that no principles will ever suffice. In which case you need to find a way to reframe the problem.

Re: Keep Android Open

#335

Post by array_key_first »

maxloh wrote: post #46
codedokode wrote: post #29

Before buying a smartphone I tried to find an inexpensive model that supports open source OS, but I couldn't. What open OS support is ether expensive Pixels, or outdated models. The solution, I think, would be a regulation that forbids manufacturers of any chip or device CPU from making obstacles to reprogramming the device (using fuses, digital signatures, encryption etc). So if you buy a device with CPU and writabl…

Most vendors (at some level) allow flashing custom distributions, as long as you didn't buy that device from carrier: https://github.com/zenfyrdev/bootloader-unlock-wall-of-shame... You will lose DRM-based apps (e.g. Netflix), Payment apps, and bank apps though.

Android and said manufacturers purposefully do everything in their power to make this as awful as possible.

For example, you can't relock the bootloader on any device except pixels. Why? No reason. Just fuck you, I guess.

That's a huge security hole that they're creating, intentionally.

What's going on is they are hoping that if you do use other software that you get malware or get scammed. They are literally, actually, undermining their own device's security just to send a message.

These people are psychotic.

Re: Keep Android Open

#336

Post by liendolucas »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #323
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

Webapps solve this completely. You login to a service as we have been doing forever. And the control is still on their side when you use a webapp. Almost every single app that is on my phone can be a webapp.

Re: Keep Android Open

#337

Post by BenjiWiebe »

NekkoDroid wrote: post #268
codedokode wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, for "anything over 5 years old" you can probably find a privilege escalation exploit.

Do tell me when you find one for unlocking the bootloader of an LG G6, been looking for one for a few years now :)

A 1st gen Verizon Moto X bootloader unlock would be nice as well.

Re: Keep Android Open

#338

Post by NoobPretender »

ape4 wrote: post #329

Perhaps Android could run sideloaded apps in a container. I know Android apps are already somewhat contained by userid.

perhaps the users should be allowed to install whatever they want on the devices they own? this "security" narrative google spews is weak, considering how much malware fails to be detected by play store

Re: Keep Android Open

#339

Post by pjmlp »

vanviegen wrote: post #236
pjmlp wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My TV runs one, it isn't taking the world by storm. https://webostv.developer.lge.com/discover

It's got to be better than the laggy, unreliable, content-pushing Google TV crap that runs my TV... Right? Making a guess: nope. Same underpowered SoC, in order to save $5.

It is better than Android TV, which I also own, but in terms of ads, yep there are some as well.

Differention, that is what all OEMs care about, netbooks already showed us that.

Re: Keep Android Open

#340

Post by ulrikrasmussen »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #323
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

This is why we need laws and regulation. And the most important thing we need is not governments forcing Android to be open, but laws requiring governments to not force their citizens to use locked down hardware.

My government, Denmark, is one of the most digitized societies in the world. While the government has allocated money to a committee to investigate how the country can become less dependent on American big tech corporations, at the same time they are planning on launching a mandatory age verification solution in 2026 where the only possibly anonymous way of verifying your age to access e.g. social media will be through a smartphone app running on either Google Android or Apple iOS. These nincompoops do not realize that this move will effectively put every open source alternative at a permanent and severe disadvantage, thus handing Apple and Google, which are already duopolies in the smartphone market, a huge moat that will lock out all future competitors form entering the market.

I have written to the relevant government agencies, and while they are nice enough to actually answer questions, their answers reveal that they act as if they are a commercial business and not a government agency that is supposed to act in the interest of the people and preserve their freedom. They argue that they are releasing a solution that will work for the vast majority of platforms and that they are continuously monitoring the market to assess whether they need to add support for other platforms. This is a cost-cutting measure which is maybe okay for a commercial entity targeting a specific market demographic, but it is an absurd way for a government to think.

Before the upcoming age verification we already had a national digital identity solution, MitID, which also comes as an app running on Android and iOS, and which is locked down to require strong integrity using Google Play Integrity. But at least here they also offer hardware tokens so people can use their digital identity without owning a smartphone and running an open source OS like Linux on their desktops. But with age verification this is apparently over, all the while the government is lying about actually making an effort to free us from American big tech - they are instead basically forcing us to be their customers now.

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