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Keep Android Open

keepandroidopen.org

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Re: Keep Android Open

#321

Post by array_key_first »

ruszki wrote: post #301
seba_dos1 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is popularity a concern? I'm writing this on a Librem 5 with PureOS that I've been daily driving for the last few years and which gives me a much better experience than Android could. Why would it matter to me as a user whether it's popular or not? The only thing I can think of is availability of native applications, but this would just hide the actual problem with interoperability and pass it down for the next u…

For example because the wait time in the theme park which I visited can be find only in their app for iOS and Android. The same true for ordering food to your table in another theme park. Yeah, there are alternatives, but those cost you time, sometimes hours. And these companies won’t implement anything for an error margin.

The fact this is a thing is part of the problem.

We should not be downloading executables and running them from random third parties in order to do mundane tasks. If they absolutely must have an app, it should be a web app, end of.

Re: Keep Android Open

#322

Post by chrisweekly »

liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Agreed w the sentiments. Minor nit: "I can't say it isn't a daily driver for everyone" - double negative

Re: Keep Android Open

#323

Post by TeMPOraL »

liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...).

Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing.

It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them, mobile devices lose 90%+ of their usefulness, dooming them to become mere gadgets instead of (crappy, toylike) tools for everyday use.

Re: Keep Android Open

#324

Post by agile-gift0262 »

aNoob7000 wrote: post #290
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

I don't understand why individuals expect a corporation like Google, driven by profits, to give a sh*t. I would expect no less of Apple with IOS. Individuals should look for and support alternatives. I'm currently working on a desktop running Ubuntu because I want an alternative to the duopoly of Windows and macOS. Additionally, we should support open-source alternatives with our donations. I personally donate money…

The OS on desktop situation isn't comparable to the OS on mobile situation. You can buy any PC and expect being able to replace its OS. On phones, you have to look for the ones where it's possible, and depending on the phone, it's possible despite the efforts from the manufacturers for not allowing it.

Also in PC OSs, there isn't a corporation dictating what programs you are allowed to install. In iOS there is, and soon in Android too.

IMO, these corporations have managed to amass an amount of power where there's no longer consumer freedom. Therefore, there's no free market. We have reached a point where the law must intervene to restore capitalism.

Re: Keep Android Open

#325

Post by mkaszkowiak »

Google is killing Android. Along with the side-loading changes, I'm losing the desire to keep using it, as it's no longer an open OS.

What's the point of those changes? Does Google want to maintain its revenue from Play Store? Feels like a bad long-term decision, especially when Apple is releasing excellent phones.

Re: Keep Android Open

#326

Post by chrisweekly »

liendolucas wrote: post #296
figmert wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that a new project and even a fork would need buy in buy companies like Samsung. Otherwise a project LineageOS would be much more popular. This is hard to do without serious money.

Yes, agree 100%. It's not only Android the problem. It's the cartelization between them and hardware manufacturers. But then that means that we will be doomed to the current duopoly between Google and Apple. The very first step I believe needs to be taken is to pass strict laws to allow devices to be reflashed with whatever we want. Until we do not have that in place we will always be stucked like this. Once people c…

Good point about hardware duopoly, and laws (along lines of "right to repair", right?). Nit: "Until we do not have that in place" - double negative

Re: Keep Android Open

#327

Post by ethbr1 »

MarsIronPI wrote: post #315
ElectricSpoon wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For another platform to rise, there needs to be some heavy market shift. There already were opensource mobile OS: Maemo/meego/Tizen. Heck! I'd even throw phosh and ubports in the pot. But those are about as rare a sight in the wild as lightphones. Phones have become essential to daily lives and the catch22 is: companies won't support niche platforms for their apps and users won't switch until the apps are there. Andr…

One of the benefits of mobile GNU/Linux distros is that it is possible to run Android apps on them. Waydroid works well. The one catch is that it can be difficult to trick certain picky apps into running on an "unsecured" device.

> The one catch is that it can be difficult to trick certain picky apps into running on an "unsecured" device.

Imho, this is where we should fight for regulation.

"All mobile apps must allow the user to acknowledge the risks of running on an unsecured platform, but then launch normally"

Couple it with a liability shield for user security issues, if the user acknowledges risk.

The real Android lock-in is the universe of essential apps that, through developer laziness, refuse to launch on alternative platforms.

Re: Keep Android Open

#328

Post by criddell »

Garvi wrote: post #198

If people working for Google had a conscience, they would be working to break the system from within. At this point it's leaving the confines of anti-consumerism and entering into a gray area of basic human rights abuse. It's clearly a cartel market with the other big players (Apple and others to a lesser extend) that needed to be broken 10 years ago(if it were possible). It reminds me a bit of the book "The Constant…

Going full on Godwin today?

People working for Google are not Nazis and people using Android phones are not like Auschwitz prisoners. That's a really terrible analogy.

Re: Keep Android Open

#329

Post by ape4 »

Perhaps Android could run sideloaded apps in a container. I know Android apps are already somewhat contained by userid.

Re: Keep Android Open

#330

Post by cesarb »

echelon_musk wrote: post #308
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Good luck funding the development of a competing mobile OS by FLOSS nerds that can compete with Google's trillion dollar market cap. Even if you could get some traction, you're gonna have a bad time getting banks to support this OS, at which point it will be useless for most users, preventing you from ever becoming profitable.

> Even if you could get some traction, you're gonna have a bad time getting banks to support this OS

This already happened. Banks here in Brazil like to require an invasive piece of software (a browser "plugin", though it installs system services) to access their online banking websites. For a long time, this invasive software was Windows-only, so those of us using Linux had to either beg the banks to enable a flag to bypass that "security software" for our accounts, or do without online banking. The same for the government-developed tax software, which was initially DOS-only and then became Windows-only.

But nowadays, there is a Linux variant of that invasive banking "security" software, and that tax software became Java-only (with Windows, Linux, and MacOS installers, plus a generic archive for other operating systems). So things can change.

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