Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

eurollm.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

531–540 of 629 posts

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#531

Post by ACCount37 »

airspresso wrote: post #377
loandbehold wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing that LLMs are trained on "Internet crap" but is it true? For instance we know from Anthropic copyright case that they scanned millions of books to make a training set. They certainly use Internet content for training but I'm sure it's curated to a large degree. They don't just scrap random pages and feed into LLM.

> I keep hearing that LLMs are trained on "Internet crap" but is it true? Karpathy repeated this in a recent interview [0], that if you'd look at random samples in the pretraining set you'd mostly see a lot of garbage text. And that it's very surprising it works at all. The labs have focused a lot more on finetuning (posttraining) and RL lately, and from my understanding that's where all the desirable properties of a…

"Just" is the wrong way to put it.

Pretraining teaches LLMs everything. SFT and RL is about putting that "everything" into useful configurations and gluing it together so that it works better.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#532

Post by tripzilch »

lou1306 wrote: post #512
tripzilch wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Frisian is not an official language of the Netherlands to the best of my knowledge Sorry, but it is.

This is like saying German is an official language of Italy. It is officially recognized in specific bilingual provinces, not nation-wide.

I dunno about the situation with the languages of Italy, from a cursory glance at Wikipedia it seems a _lot_ more complicated than Frysian/Dutch in NL, so I really don't think it's anything "like saying" that.

But "official" means exactly what it means, and when I'm saying "Frysian is an official language of the Netherlands", it means that it's recognized as an official language of Netherlands, by the Dutch government. And if it was up to the provinces I dunno, but it's not. Frysian is the one that's considered one of the official languages of the Netherlands.

I also don't think comparing to Italy makes sense at all because countries are different and decide what are their official languages for very different historical reasons. For instance you can look up what Dutch government body is responsible for deciding the Frysian language is an official one in the Netherlands and why, and you will very likely find no Italian equivalent of that.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#533

Post by tripzilch »

Freak_NL wrote: post #507
tripzilch wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Frisian is not an official language of the Netherlands to the best of my knowledge Sorry, but it is.

Correct. Frisia (or Fryslân) is a bilingual province. Frisian is an official language of the Netherlands. Someone called in front of a judge in the north of the Netherlands has the right to be heard in Frisian, for example. Fun fact: villages, towns, and cities in Frisia often have names which differ in Frisian and Dutch. In those cases the signs at the place limits will have both names listed; the official one on to…

I really like that the intercom announcement voice in our trains (and also buses?) is bilingual.

And huh interesting, I didn't know that for some places with bilingual names, the Dutch name is official and for others the Frysian is? Who gets to decide that, the municipality?

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#534

Post by Qem »

adzm wrote: post #2

For those curious, the 24 official languages are Bulgarian, Croatian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Estonian, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Irish, Italian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Maltese, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Slovak, Slovenian, Spanish, and Swedish. Maltese, interestingly, is the only Afro-Asiatic derived language. Hungarian, Finnish, and Estonian are the three Uralic languages. All the others ar…

What about Basque, is it not included?

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#535

Post by OJFord »

tripzilch wrote: post #532
lou1306 wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like saying German is an official language of Italy. It is officially recognized in specific bilingual provinces, not nation-wide.

I dunno about the situation with the languages of Italy, from a cursory glance at Wikipedia it seems a _lot_ more complicated than Frysian/Dutch in NL, so I really don't think it's anything "like saying" that. But "official" means exactly what it means, and when I'm saying "Frysian is an official language of the Netherlands", it means that it's recognized as an official language of Netherlands, by the Dutch governmen…

Wikipedia says it's an official language in the region, as English also is regionally, but only Dutch is an official language nationally.

Which is exactly what it says for German in Italy, mutatis mutandis.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#537

Post by OJFord »

gambiting wrote: post #521
pasc1878 wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country nominates English? The obvious suspects are Ireland and Malta which have nominated non English languages so it is not them.

Well I can only assume that when UK departed the EU, English wasn't removed automatically even though no country remaining in the EU nominates it as their official language of choice.

The UK was not a founding member of the EEC which preceded it, I don't know and haven't easily been able to find out, but it wouldn't be that surprising if the European Parliament already used English as a common language for policy etc.

(In fact to strengthen that probability, if it had been say French, when and why would it have switched go English? Just because the UK joined?)

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#538

Post by ranc1d »

Qem wrote: post #534
adzm wrote: post #2

For those curious, the 24 official languages are Bulgarian, Croatian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Estonian, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Irish, Italian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Maltese, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Slovak, Slovenian, Spanish, and Swedish. Maltese, interestingly, is the only Afro-Asiatic derived language. Hungarian, Finnish, and Estonian are the three Uralic languages. All the others ar…

What about Basque, is it not included?

Basque doesn't seem to be but Catalan, Galician are

https://huggingface.co/utter-project/EuroLLM-9B

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#539

Post by cbeach »

saubeidl wrote: post #503
cbeach wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're mistaken about appointment/election: * Citizens vote in a nationwide election every four years. * Those votes determine electors in each state — this is part of the Electoral College system. * The Electoral College then formally elects the president based on those state results. * The candidate who receives at least 270 of the 538 electoral votes becomes president. So while there’s a layer of formality…

The EC is a government body. The voters do not elect the President, they elect the EC. The same way that voters elect their national governments, which then appoint the Commission.

1. The Electoral College isn’t a governing body.

* It doesn’t have ongoing powers, authority, or political discretion like a parliament or the European Council.

* It’s a one-time, ceremonial body that meets once every four years to cast votes reflecting (in nearly all cases) the popular vote results in each state.

2. Electors don’t deliberate or choose freely.

* In almost every state, electors are legally bound (or at least politically bound) to vote according to their state’s popular vote.

* So the outcome is functionally determined by voters, not by an independent decision of the Electoral College.

3. The EU analogy misrepresents the role of the Electoral College.

* In the EU, citizens elect national governments, which then appoint members of the European Council, who negotiate and nominate the EU Commission — a genuine appointment process.

* In the U.S., the electors are not government officials making appointments; they are agents executing the people’s will as expressed in the election.

---

In the US, the people elect the President, because electors vote as their state’s voters directed.

The EU Commission analogy doesn’t fit, because that’s an appointment process made by governments, not a formalization of a direct vote.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#540

Post by ranc1d »

gambiting wrote: post #521
pasc1878 wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country nominates English? The obvious suspects are Ireland and Malta which have nominated non English languages so it is not them.

Well I can only assume that when UK departed the EU, English wasn't removed automatically even though no country remaining in the EU nominates it as their official language of choice.

Irish and English are both official languages in the Republic of Ireland. Irish is the first official language and English being the second.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2003/act/32/enacted/en/p...

Post reply on HN