Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

threads.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 954 posts

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#361

Post by lvl155 »

tracker1 wrote: post #324

I was hospitalized about two decades ago, before ACA passed, so my insurance was limited to 500k, I was on the hook for about 180k beyond that... because I was making decent income I was ineligible for Medicaid or any other assistance... I worked extra jobs for a number of years after, every tax return, the couple bonuses that I'd earned all went towards paying it down... Anyone who was willing to negotiate the amoun…

And it’s going to get progressively worse for everyone. My rule of thumb is that for every perceived 15% increase in care outcome, cost doubles for patients. This is how drug or procedure costs exploded over the past two decades.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#362

Post by codegeek »

egorfine wrote: post #253
chrisgeleven wrote: post #245

I fought insurance over this past summer after they declined covering a life saving surgery for my 6-year-old child at the last minute. We were in despair that my child's life was at risk each day we waited because of insurance incompetence. ChatGPT literally guided me through the whole external appeal process, who to contact outside of normal channels to ask for help / apply pressure, researched questions I had, hel…

[flagged]

Great question. No one "wants" insurance. Everyone wants to be able to get covered for care. The problem is that Govt decided decades ago that Health Insurance is the only way to get care even for mundane things like a regular doctor visit. To make it worse, they tied it to Employers needing to provide insurance. Insurance companies love this bureaucracy and became too powerful over the last few decades.

It is a sad state and I have almost given up on the hope that someday it will change. I m lucky enough to afford healthcare and feel for those who can't.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#363

Post by kwanbix »

georgeecollins wrote: post #278
egorfine wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think the reason is that people know it is a problem but ideologically they really disagree about what to do about it. The impasse creates an opportunity for profit driven actors to fight reforms. Also, democracies do dumb things sometimes. See Brexit. But also, sometimes people from other countries-- I am thinking parts of Europe-- underestimate how well paid people in the US often are. They compare the averages,…

As a non-american (from South America) who lived in both USA an Europe:

Yes, in USA you get much more money, like you said 2x~5x, but then:

University is expensive as fck. Health care is expensive as fck. You have 5 days of paid sick leave per year in most companies. You have 10 days of paid holidays per year in most companies.

In contrast, in Europe: University was cheap or free. Healthcare is cheap and universal. If you are sick you are sick, either the company or the health insurance pay. You have between 20 and 30 days of paid holidays.

This is why quality of life in Europe, is so superior. And again, I am saying this as a non-European.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#365

Post by mrguyorama »

whimsicalism wrote: post #184
foldr wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medicare has pretty good negotiating power, rather like the NHS. Medicare patients may not care how much Medicare is paying for their treatment, but the US government cares how much it spends on Medicare, and the IRA has given it some additional powers to negotiate drug prices in recent years.

Imagine if the U.S. government gave out free smartphones to some segment of the population. Over the years, they’d get used to replacing their phones for the smallest reason — a scratch, a tiny crack, dropped it a little hard — because it costs them nothing. Some might even start swapping phones every month or every week. “Ah,” someone says, “but the government negotiates huge discounts with the phone makers since it…

>Imagine if the U.S. government gave out free smartphones to some segment of the population.

Obama phones were literally a thing and

>Over the years, they’d get used to replacing their phones for the smallest reason — a scratch, a tiny crack, dropped it a little hard — because it costs them nothing.

Did not happen because this is absurd and not how any entitlement program anywhere has ever worked, and more importantly, in healthcare you WANT THIS TO HAPPEN

It's cheaper for someone to go see their doctor when they "think I might have something wrong" then once they actually know something is wrong, and so substantially cheaper that even US insurance companies try to entice it by making yearly physicals free or other preventative care, but it doesn't work as well for the US because even with insurance incentivizing it, you still end up with all the billing BS that can leave you harmed by going to the doctor

> I think this misses the forest for the trees when it comes to cost control.

Sorry, the actual empirical evidence is that the government setting prices has done better all over the world than whatever the US does. This magic belief that allowing the government to control access magically produces bad systems is just wrong. Government is capable when you vote for people who want to make good government

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#366

Post by egorfine »

codegeek wrote: post #362
egorfine wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Great question. No one "wants" insurance. Everyone wants to be able to get covered for care. The problem is that Govt decided decades ago that Health Insurance is the only way to get care even for mundane things like a regular doctor visit. To make it worse, they tied it to Employers needing to provide insurance. Insurance companies love this bureaucracy and became too powerful over the last few decades. It is a sad…

> I m lucky enough to afford healthcare

Up to a point, I guess? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#367

Post by nickff »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #312
egorfine wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The US is only ostensibly a democracy. It's not a functioning one, due to widespread voter disenfranchisement. Voter ID laws, voter roll purges, registration barriers, polling place accessibility, early and mail-in voting restrictions, and perhaps most importantly gerrymandering, misinformation, and intimidation all serve to reduce the power of the ballot box. And that's before we even get to US citizens in Puerto Ri…

Most other countries have voter ID, and the controversy surrounding it is puzzling to most foreigners. Additionally, parliamentary systems which result in majority governments are much more ‘dictatorship-like’ than the US system where individual representatives retain some autonomy.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#368

Post by fukka42 »

egorfine wrote: post #253
chrisgeleven wrote: post #245

I fought insurance over this past summer after they declined covering a life saving surgery for my 6-year-old child at the last minute. We were in despair that my child's life was at risk each day we waited because of insurance incompetence. ChatGPT literally guided me through the whole external appeal process, who to contact outside of normal channels to ask for help / apply pressure, researched questions I had, hel…

[flagged]

Yes, it is what they want.

In the end there are more of them who want to "own the libs", or "not pay for freeloaders" than those who want to contribute to another's child surviving.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#369

Post by tonymet »

sofixa wrote: post #115
tonymet wrote: post #48

We suddenly woke up in the Kafka-esque purgatory of critical American healthcare billing. We’re in our 50s and had been perfectly healthy, then suddenly we got diagnosed with what will be over $500k in treatment over the next 12 months— and multiple millions for the foreseeable future. We have insurance, but many of the required procedures are “out of network” and there’s no way to tell (we have “the best” insurance,…

For such sums, you're probably better off calling the best private hospitals in France, UK, Germany, whatever, taking the trip, doing whatever treatment there and paying out of pocket, having some holiday, and you're still ahead. Of course that would only work if you can take the time off from work, have the same treatment available elsewhere, and being able to actually travel with whatever illness you have.

you’re right it’s a great idea for a hip replacement and many other procedures. Our condition doesn’t fit into that model well because of the duration and frequency of treatments.

I’m guessing there has to be a queue on that. Even those countries must be getting backlogged right? I haven’t looked into it besides what I’ve heard on social media.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#370

Post by willio58 »

egorfine wrote: post #352
willio58 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States is a democracy, but more specifically, a representative democracy. That means citizens don’t directly vote on most laws or policies—aside from certain state or local measures—but instead elect representatives to make those decisions on our behalf. The idea is that we trust them to act in our best interests. You can probably see where the problem comes in. Take, for example, a politician who campaign…

Ah, so Americans are okay with that system as well. Got it.

As stated near the end of my comment, most Americans are not okay with the system as it is. It’s legalized corruption that perpetuates the system.

For further reading, I recommend learning about the Citizens United vs FEC case that vastly increased the amount of money going to politicians, far over individual donation limits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC

Post reply on HN