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PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

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Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#681

Post by potato3732842 »

KPGv2 wrote: post #546
rayiner wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Such a statement from those with hiring authority is highly illegal. Any HR department that would let this message be delivered, either explicitly or implicitly, would open the company to massive lawsuits, such as the one you linked to. You’re correct about the law, and the EEOC interpretation has been consistent for decades: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/section-15-race-and-color... . But in practice, in many…

> I suspect what happened is that a generation of professionals went through university systems where racial preferences were practiced openly I feel like you're ignoring that racial preferences were practiced openly for the entirety of the existence of the university systems in the US. It's just that for almost all of time, the preference was for "white non-Jews" (where "white" was historically malleable: Benjamin F…

>Benjamin Franklin wrote a somewhat famous screed about how Germans and Swedes weren't white, they were inferior, and they were "darken[ing America]'s people"

I am going to use the crap out of that reference whenever I see people on HN creatively redefining Europe to exclude parts in order to dishonestly back up some point.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#682

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

array_key_first wrote: post #446
zb3 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yeah you know all those "women" and their "liberal views". I'm a strong republican, that's why I only want to be around men. And touch them and smell them.

Nothing wrong with touching and smelling men if they consent.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#683

Post by theandrewbailey »

trymas wrote: post #617

> discriminatory equity ideology in violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws. Striving for equality according to MAGA is discrimination. Make systematic racism and sexism great again like it’s <1950s?

Racism and sexism is illegal under Federal anti-discrimination laws.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#684

Post by potato3732842 »

alistairSH wrote: post #673
jchw wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linking the term DEI to illegal hiring practices is like linking having a male manager to sexual harassment. Obviously, it is not fair to discredit all DEI initiatives simply because some of them (possibly a small minority of them) have lead to illegal hiring practices, but it is nonetheless an issue that it happens. That's obviously still true even if it seems entirely antithetical to the point of said initiatives…

How much of an issue it really is we can only really postulate, though. Between the Labor Dept and various think-tanks/economic research groups, there should/could be data. I suspect there are a small number of very public MegaCorps doing illegal DEI and that’s enough to illicit the backlash we’re seeing. I know from my own employer, DEI is about outreach during recruiting and a combination of training for all employ…

>I and that’s enough to illicit the backlash we’re seeing.

Gee, it's almost like we're re-learning what the origin of the phrase "even the appearance of impropriety" is.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#685

Post by thaumasiotes »

verall wrote: post #625
thaumasiotes wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> This is easy to explain on the grounds of ability. What exactly are you suggesting here? If it's easy to explain, can you try to help me understand?

[flagged]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#686

Post by lan321 »

cycomanic wrote: post #676
lan321 wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anonymizing names and such is fine/good but the whole push for equal net worth, etc is IMO bad. Granting assistance exclusively to people below the median is equal to punishing those above the median. And if you start adding race, gender, etc it gets even worse. And adding history makes it even more so. Historically everyone has fucked over everyone at some point and many versions exist for many events. The status qu…

> And adding history makes it even more so. Historically everyone has fucked over everyone at some point and many versions exist for many events. You obviously don't believe we should forget everything in the past, otherwise what does prevent me from taking your stuff today and tomorrow when you come back with the police I'd argue it's in the past "and everyone fucked over everyone at some point". So the question the…

One is a crime though. For 'daily' crimes I believe essentially every country has some form of Statute of Limitations. If I decide to pursue a theft 20 years after it happened the courts will tell me to fuck off because it's no longer relevant..

The issue with reparations or w/e though is that it's punishing people who committed no crime for something that's now a crime but back in the day, wasn't, done by their ancestors long enough ago that most have no real life recollection of it anymore.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#688

Post by VagabundoP »

ModernMech wrote: post #475
VagabundoP wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is literally quid pro quo right now. you have to play the game and I don't blame them as such. But PSF doing this and not playing the game is really awesome. I just hope they can fund themselves through other means. EU should be stepping up more with funding for projects like this as a replacement for US tech. Major secure reliable funding for open source projects that EU infrastructure can be built on would only…

> I don't blame them as such. I do! Have you read Timothy Snyder yet? He warns that most of the dictator's power is granted willingly. That's what this is, so to the extent you believe they are blameless, their acquiescence is in real terms making it so much worse: "Do not obey in advance. Most of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive…

I'm watching videos of ICE kidnapping a woman and her kids while shes in their school, to be brought to god knows where, that would not look out of place in the 1930s.

When you have a full time secret police that wanders the streets kidnapping people, yeah that has a chilling effect, people want to keep their heads down.

And its tricky, because they will ignore the huge protests, and they want some sort of armed or civil disobedience when it comes to their secret police because they are looking for excuses to label them Antifa terrorists and escalate.

I don't see the obvious play here for Americans looking to fight this. Maybe the Midterms could help, maybe if enough local action, maybe the US to too big to cow like that, maybe the blue states have enough independence to survive the federal overreach, maybe Trump dies and MAGA dies with him.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#689

Post by TimorousBestie »

potato3732842 wrote: post #684
alistairSH wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of an issue it really is we can only really postulate, though. Between the Labor Dept and various think-tanks/economic research groups, there should/could be data. I suspect there are a small number of very public MegaCorps doing illegal DEI and that’s enough to illicit the backlash we’re seeing. I know from my own employer, DEI is about outreach during recruiting and a combination of training for all employ…

>I and that’s enough to illicit the backlash we’re seeing. Gee, it's almost like we're re-learning what the origin of the phrase "even the appearance of impropriety" is.

Unfortunately, it’s trivial these days to gin up the appearance of impropriety even where there is none.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#690

Post by evilsetg »

bluecalm wrote: post #667
kelnos wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that 'Women in STEM' is very accepted but a 'Men in STEM' program would never fly That's because, in general, STEM itself is already a "Men in STEM" program. We men don't need a program to get us excited about pursuing STEM education & careers; that pursuit is already there, and already common. It goes back to innocuous-seeming things as young boys being given chemistry kits for their birthday, while young girls ar…

Your argument is based on the fact that more men naturally gravitate towards STEM than women do. This doesn't mean there aren't still men who could go into STEM but lack motivation/opportunity/some other push. Maybe there are more of them than there is women like that, maybe not. You are saying it's ok to ignore all those men just because already bigger % of men naturally go into STEM. This is just discriminatory. Ju…

It's fun that you say 'naturally' when there have been centuries of oppression and conditioning against women in STEM.
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