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PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

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Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#581

Post by [deleted] »

the_sleaze_ wrote: post #482
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how DEI should work, and probably does in some, or maybe many, cases. In other cases, it boiled down to "this quarter, we only have headcount for 'diverse' candidates", metrics for DEI hiring that turn into goals, and e-mails stating "only accept new L3 candidates that are from historically underrepresented groups". I expect that I'll get accused of making this up, which is why the latter is an exact quote sh…

I sat in an all hands where the vice president of HR proudly crowed to the company that they had hired 75% non-whites that quarter.

[deleted]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#582

Post by typewithrhythm »

gcanyon wrote: post #566
the_sleaze_ wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sat in an all hands where the vice president of HR proudly crowed to the company that they had hired 75% non-whites that quarter.

In your mind, if the company had researched their past hiring and found that whites/males had been favored for the previous history of the company, how long would it be reasonable for them to favor minorities and other underrepresented groups to balance the scales?

You cannot make a fair system by introducing subjective ideas like historical balance.

A set of rules for fairness require that current decisions only account for individual merit; not special status.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#583

Post by xdennis »

judahmeek wrote: post #522
FloorEgg wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not like there were DEI advocates out there giving guides on how to break the law I think you're very mistaken. Not only were their guides, but there were federal regulations mandating that the laws be broken. It is/was a mess.

What are your sources?

Here's an example: the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021 allocated grants to help restaurant owners. It did so on a racist basis: if the restaurant is owned primarily by women, veterans, or the "socially and economically disadvantaged".

There was a trial. The government lost. https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca6/21...

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#584

Post by userbinator »

th wrote: post #341

It seems like a number of the "DEI is anti-merit discrimination" messages in this thread are overlooking how DEI work usually works. A relevant tweet from 2016 ( https://x.com/jessicamckellar/status/737299461563502595 ): > Hello from your @PyCon Diversity Chair. % PyCon talks by women: (2011: 1%), (2012: 7%), (2013: 15%), (2014/15: 33%), (2016: 40%). #pycon2016 Increased diversity in communities usually comes from ac…

[flagged]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#586

Post by seattle_spring »

xdennis wrote: post #574
th wrote: post #341

It seems like a number of the "DEI is anti-merit discrimination" messages in this thread are overlooking how DEI work usually works. A relevant tweet from 2016 ( https://x.com/jessicamckellar/status/737299461563502595 ): > Hello from your @PyCon Diversity Chair. % PyCon talks by women: (2011: 1%), (2012: 7%), (2013: 15%), (2014/15: 33%), (2016: 40%). #pycon2016 Increased diversity in communities usually comes from ac…

>> (2011: 1%), (2012: 7%), (2013: 15%), (2014/15: 33%), (2016: 40%). #pycon2016 > Increased diversity in communities usually comes from active outreach work. PyCon's talk selection process starts blinded. There is no world in which 40% of programmers are women. 1% in 2011 is also probably evidence of discrimination. But too few people are willing to admit that if 40% of the speakers are women that represents a drop i…

> But often DEI goes to absurd lengths like lowering standards for female firemen or combat soldiers.

I've certainly heard that claim manu times, but never seen it backed up with actual data or even reputable anecdotes. Can you share the sources that led you to this conclusion?

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#587

Post by throwaway743 »

epicureanideal wrote: post #545
th wrote: post #341

It seems like a number of the "DEI is anti-merit discrimination" messages in this thread are overlooking how DEI work usually works. A relevant tweet from 2016 ( https://x.com/jessicamckellar/status/737299461563502595 ): > Hello from your @PyCon Diversity Chair. % PyCon talks by women: (2011: 1%), (2012: 7%), (2013: 15%), (2014/15: 33%), (2016: 40%). #pycon2016 Increased diversity in communities usually comes from ac…

> unusually homogenous communities Which can be socioeconomic rather than racial.. It’s hard to break into the club of people who know CEOs or have parents or relatives who are VPs of major companies and can provide access for startups by people they know, for example.

Imo DEI should have always been based on socioeconomic status over anything else. It'd likely address the other forms of diversity, and would provide way less homogeneity in thought while at the same time providing a sense of inclusion/belonging.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#588

Post by userbinator »

seattle_spring wrote: post #586
xdennis wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> (2011: 1%), (2012: 7%), (2013: 15%), (2014/15: 33%), (2016: 40%). #pycon2016 > Increased diversity in communities usually comes from active outreach work. PyCon's talk selection process starts blinded. There is no world in which 40% of programmers are women. 1% in 2011 is also probably evidence of discrimination. But too few people are willing to admit that if 40% of the speakers are women that represents a drop i…

> But often DEI goes to absurd lengths like lowering standards for female firemen or combat soldiers. I've certainly heard that claim manu times, but never seen it backed up with actual data or even reputable anecdotes. Can you share the sources that led you to this conclusion?

Look at the FAA ATC hiring controversy.

https://www.tracingwoodgrains.com/p/the-faas-hiring-scandal-...

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#589

Post by smohare »

TimorousBestie wrote: post #569
KPGv2 wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in other words, it went on for a few centuries like I said.

Discrimination didn’t magically end with the Civil Rights Act, either. American universities are still mostly good ol’ boy networks in all the relevant ways.

You’ll notice that most people arguing against DEI rarely perform meaningful analytics. Because when you do look at the data it tells the tale that the same centuries old systemic biases are still in play.

This is obvious to any adult in the room. But the benefactors of said biases do not want to acknowledge it since it lays bare their utter mediocrity.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#590

Post by xdennis »

eirikbakke wrote: post #523
ethical_source wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Waving a flag is protected speech under the 1st amendment.

Non sequitur and false. The US constitution only guarantees that the government won't ban your speech. Non-government entities are allowed to ban speech.
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