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OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

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Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#61

Post by skeledrew »

mgh2 wrote: post #8
NathanKP wrote: post #3

> It is estimated that more than one in five U.S. adults live with a mental illness (59.3 million in 2022; 23.1% of the U.S. adult population). https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness Most people don't understand just how mentally unwell the US population is. Of course there are one million talking to ChatGPT about suicide weekly. This is not a surprising stat at all. It's just a question of what to…

Are you sure ChatGPT is the solution? It just sounds like another "savior complex" sell spin from tech. 1. Social media -> connection 2. AGI -> erotica 3. Suicide -> prevention All these for engagement (i.e. addiction). It seems like the tech industry is the root cause itself trying to masquerade the problem by brainwashing the population. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45026886

Whether solution or not, fact is AI* is the most available entity for anyone who has sensitive issues they'd like to share. It's (relatively) cheap, doesn't judge, is always there when wanted/needed and can continue a conversation exactly where left off at any point.

* LLM would of course be technically more correct, but that term doesn't appeal to people seeking some level of intelligent interaction.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#62

Post by Simulacra »

roflchoppa wrote: post #55

Is it bad to think about suicide? It does not cross my mind as a "i want to harm myself" every-time, but on occasion does cross my mind as a hypothetical.

Not at all, considering end of life and to choose euthanasia, or not, I think it's perfectly human. Controversially, I think it's a natural right to decide how you will exit this world. But having an objective system that you don't have to pay like a therapist to try to get some understanding is at least better than nothing.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#63

Post by ggm »

roflchoppa wrote: post #55

Is it bad to think about suicide? It does not cross my mind as a "i want to harm myself" every-time, but on occasion does cross my mind as a hypothetical.

Ideation (as I understand it) crosses the barrier from a hypothetical to the possibility being entertained.

I have also been told by people in the mental health sector that an awful lot of suicide is impulse. It's why they say the element of human connection which is behind the homily of asking "RU ok" is effective: it breaks the moment. It's hokey, and it's massively oversold but for people in isolation, simply being engaged with can be enough to prevent a tendency to act, which was on the brink.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#64

Post by blindriver »

On a side note, I think once we start to deal with global scale, we need to change what “rare” actually means.

0.15% is not rare when we are talking about global scale. 1 million people talking about suicide a week is not rare. It is common. We have to stop thinking about common being a number on the scale of 100%. We need to start thinking in terms of P99995 not P99 especially when it comes to people and illnesses or afflictions both physical and mental.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#65

Post by Demiurge »

btilly wrote: post #48
ben_w wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally take no opinion about whether or not they can actually solve anything, because I am not a psychologist and have absolutely no idea how good or bad ChatGPT is at this sort of thing, but I will say I'd rather the company at least tries to do some good given that Facebook HQ is not very far from their offices and appears to have been actively evil in this specific regard.

The general rule of thumb is this. When given the right prompts, LLMs can be very effective at therapy. Certainly my wife gets a lot of mileage out of having ChatGPT help her reframe things in a better way. However "the right prompts" are not the ones that most mentally ill people would choose for themselves. And it is very easy for ChatGPT to become part of a person's delusion spiral, rather then be a helpful part o…

Is it better or worse than alternatives? Where else would a suicidal person turn, a forum with other suicidal people? Dry Wikipedia stats on suicide? Perhaps friends? Knowing how ChatGPT replies to me, I’d have a lot of trouble getting negativity influenced by it, any more than by yellow pages. Yeah, it used to try more to be your friend but GPT5 seems pretty neutral and distant.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#66

Post by ggm »

Simulacra wrote: post #62
roflchoppa wrote: post #55

Is it bad to think about suicide? It does not cross my mind as a "i want to harm myself" every-time, but on occasion does cross my mind as a hypothetical.

Not at all, considering end of life and to choose euthanasia, or not, I think it's perfectly human. Controversially, I think it's a natural right to decide how you will exit this world. But having an objective system that you don't have to pay like a therapist to try to get some understanding is at least better than nothing.

I think VAD needs to be considered outside suicide. Not that the concepts don't overlap, but one is about a considered legal process, the other (as I have said in another comment) is often an impulsive act and usually wouldn't have been countenanced under VAD. Feeling suicidal isn't a thing which makes VAD more likely, because feeling suicidal doesn't mean the same thing as "want to consider euthanasia" much as manslaughter and murder don't mean the same thing, even though somebody winds up dead.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#67

Post by ggm »

I have long believed that if you are the editor of a blog, you incur obligations by right of publishing other people's statements. You may not like this, but it's what I believe. In some economies, the law even said it. You can incur legal obligations.

I now begin to believe if you put a ChatGPT online, and observe people are using it like this, you have incurred obligations. And, in due course the law will clarify what they are. If (for instance) your GPT can construct a statistically valid position the respondent is engaged in CSAM or acts of violence, where are the limits to liability for the hoster, the software owner, the software authors, the people who constructed the model...

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#69

Post by btilly »

Demiurge wrote: post #65
btilly wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general rule of thumb is this. When given the right prompts, LLMs can be very effective at therapy. Certainly my wife gets a lot of mileage out of having ChatGPT help her reframe things in a better way. However "the right prompts" are not the ones that most mentally ill people would choose for themselves. And it is very easy for ChatGPT to become part of a person's delusion spiral, rather then be a helpful part o…

Is it better or worse than alternatives? Where else would a suicidal person turn, a forum with other suicidal people? Dry Wikipedia stats on suicide? Perhaps friends? Knowing how ChatGPT replies to me, I’d have a lot of trouble getting negativity influenced by it, any more than by yellow pages. Yeah, it used to try more to be your friend but GPT5 seems pretty neutral and distant.

I think that you will find a lot of strong opinions, and not a lot of hard data. Certainly any approach can work out poorly. For example antidepressants come with warnings about suicide risk. The reason is that they can enable people to take action on their suicidal feelings, before their suicidal feelings are fixed by the treatment.

I know that many teens turn to social media. My strong opinions against that show up in other comments...

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#70

Post by charcircuit »

jalapenos wrote: post #50

Is the news-worthy surprise that so many people find life so horrible that they are contemplating ending it? I really don't see that as surprising. The world and life aren't particularly pleasant things. What would be more interesting is how effective ChatGPT is being in guiding them towards other ideas. Most suicide prevention notices are a joke - pretending that "call this hotline" means you've done your job and th…

AI should help people achieve their goals and shouldn't be trying to persuade them into doing things others want them to.
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