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PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

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Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#511

Post by polski-g »

xeonmc wrote: post #198
numbsafari wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The direction of political winds shift over time. An organization like the PSF cannot assume an open-ended liability like that. DEI today, but what tomorrow? As we have seen, political leadership in the US has shown itself to be unreliable, pernicious, and vindictive. US leadership is undermined by the politicization of these grants. That is something that members of this community, largely a US-based, VC-oriented au…

I wonder, how likely do you think there would be a retaliatory threat of revoking PSF’s nonprofit status for a perceived snub in rejecting the offer?

It could be revoked if they are found to engage in illegal discrimination-Solidified by the U.S. Supreme Court in the 1983 case Bob Jones University v. United States. based on public comments made by board members, such evidence seems replete.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#512

Post by StilesCrisis »

schemester wrote: post #486

[flagged]

I’m not sure why you would think the “top N” of any given field would be men. There aren’t more men than women overall, and men aren’t inherently any smarter or more talented. If you’ve only ever worked in tech, though, maybe you have a skewed perspective.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#513

Post by hedora »

spit2wind wrote: post #432
tokioyoyo wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not American, nor I’ve ever lived there. But I’m not sure what an average Google/Meta employee is supposed to do? Reality is, this is what an average US citizen wants. It’s not like the government was chosen without the support of majority or something.

The government was chosen with the majority, yes. That does not mean that the majority should have its way with everything, nor does it mean that everyone, even those who voted in favor at that time agree and approve of current behavior. I mean, why even hold another election if the majority voted for the current administration? Oh wait...

He got 47%, which is not a majority of the vote. Also, many people decided to just abstain. He got something like 30% of eligible voters to vote for him.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#514

Post by schemester »

fn-mote wrote: post #510
schemester wrote: post #486

[flagged]

Misunderstanding the GP. Possibly deliberately? In the parent’s view, the top N% is fixed. In the GP’s view, it’s the top N% of the applicant pool, so a more diverse applicant pool leads to more diverse talks. Talk selection is blind (per GP), so the increasing % of female-led talks is evidence for the GP viewpoint. If the Parent view were correct, the same 98% male talks would be selected because they are “objective…

th asserts “If 500 people submit talks and 394 are men, then ~79% will likely be by men.”

I didn’t misunderstand. That is simply nonsense.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#515

Post by schemester »

StilesCrisis wrote: post #512
schemester wrote: post #486

[flagged]

I’m not sure why you would think the “top N” of any given field would be men. There aren’t more men than women overall, and men aren’t inherently any smarter or more talented. If you’ve only ever worked in tech, though, maybe you have a skewed perspective.

[flagged]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#516

Post by klipt »

acdha wrote: post #499
klipt wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you include biological and medical sciences in STEM, STEM graduates have been majority female for decades. Where is the DEI for men in the female dominated STEM subjects?

Where is your data showing those programs don’t exist? For example, conservatives like to talk about the plight of male nurses but even a cursory search shows that there are exactly the kind of programs you’d expect to find.

What's the equivalent of "Girls Who Code" - "Boys Who Nurse"? A club teaching First Aid to boys only? Does it exist at the same scale that Girls Who Code does?

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#517

Post by [deleted] »

FloorEgg wrote: post #501
epistasis wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "this quarter, we only have headcount for 'diverse' candidates", Such a statement from those with hiring authority is highly illegal. Any HR department that would let this message be delivered, either explicitly or implicitly, would open the company to massive lawsuits, such as the one you linked to. It's as bad as allowing sexual harassment. Linking the term DEI to illegal hiring practices is like linking having a…

I don't think that's quite fair, as in many cases there were federal regulations that pressured industries into behavior that was discriminatory to one group in order to favor others. In fact there was an accumulation of contradictory laws and regulations over 15+ years. In many cases regulations were set that had financial repercussions if hiring practices that were considered illegal weren't followed. There is a re…

[deleted]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#518

Post by rayiner »

epistasis wrote: post #497
klipt wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying "the Crusaders weren't real Christians because real Christianity is peaceful" See also: No True Scotsman Fallacy

No, that's not at all the case, the crusaders were acting under the blessing of the church. It still may not be "real" Christianity, but it's not like there were DEI advocates out there giving guides on how to break the law. I was at two companies promoting DEI that were explicit about non-discrimination and had extensive training on it to prevent the illegal actions linked in that lawsuit. There's no "this is DEI th…

Your point is well taken. Not everyone was violating the law. But meanwhile Microsoft was setting explicit numeric targets on hiring employees from particular racial groups: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wells-fargo-microsoft-diversity....

Companies were also demanding race-conscious staffing practices at the law firms they used: https://www.wsj.com/business/law-firm-clients-demand-more-bl.... Microsoft offered financial bonuses to law firms for promoting lawyers from specific racial groups: https://today.westlaw.com/Document/If3eb4570033e11eb8e48d387....

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#519

Post by punchfunk4lyte »

klipt wrote: post #473
dragonwriter wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but can't you at least see how weird it is that 'Women in STEM' is very accepted but a 'Men in STEM' program would never fly? I can see how it might seem weird to an alien who knew what men and women were, but had no context for the existing state and history of society. I can't see how it would seem weird to anyone else, however.

If you include biological and medical sciences in STEM, STEM graduates have been majority female for decades. Where is the DEI for men in the female dominated STEM subjects?

> If you include biological and medical sciences in STEM

Biological sciences are STEM of course. But if we're going to extend the definition, why not include all fields that involve technical skills? How about accountants and lawyers?

I'm concerned that you only proposed adding medical and nursing students because it's the only additional field that would support your argument. That strikes me as goalpost moving, so I hope it was just an omission.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#520

Post by punchfunk4lyte »

klipt wrote: post #516
acdha wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is your data showing those programs don’t exist? For example, conservatives like to talk about the plight of male nurses but even a cursory search shows that there are exactly the kind of programs you’d expect to find.

What's the equivalent of "Girls Who Code" - "Boys Who Nurse"? A club teaching First Aid to boys only? Does it exist at the same scale that Girls Who Code does?

You've never heard of programs to encourage men to be nurses or teachers? I certainly have.

Here's what I found after a quick search. If you're interested I'm sure you could research and find more information.

https://www.arizonacollege.edu/blog/men-wanted-new-efforts-t...

> Only 12% of the nurses providing patient care at hospitals and health clinics today are men. Although the percentage of nurses has increased — men made up just 2.7% of nurses in 1970 — nursing is still considered a “pink collar” profession, a female-dominated field.

https://www.belmont.edu/stories/articles/2025/men-in-educati...

> A critical shortage of male teachers continues to affect K-12 education across America, with men making up just 23% of elementary and secondary school teachers today, down from 30% in 1987, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. Belmont University's College of Education is addressing this gender gap through intentional recruitment, mentorship and innovative program design.

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