Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

pyfound.blogspot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 886 posts

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#361

Post by actionfromafar »

kube-system wrote: post #326
elicash wrote: post #228

On the one hand, the plain text of the language is not against DEI practices in general -- only DEI practices that are "in violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws." On the other hand, the federal government has gone after law firms that are not actually in violation of law and forced settlements due to their DEI programs, so you can't actually trust that you won't be hassled. Additionally, that you won't at min…

The opinion of the current administration is that DEI is illegal, the language is intentionally implying that DEI is illegal discrimination, because that is the view they are trying to advance. Grants are even being terminated for being related to any sort of diversity topic.

Grants are terminated based on keyword matches.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#362

Post by actionfromafar »

jkelleyrtp wrote: post #320

In high school, I ran a robotics team that did lots of STEM outreach. We went to community centers, after school programs, and worked with other similar orgs like "girls who code." I think we played an important role in the community. In our mission we stated we wanted to help bring "equity to STEM education." In 2025, according to the current admin's stance on "DEI," my robotics team would not be able to receive gra…

[flagged]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#363

Post by troyvit »

Kye wrote: post #330
ghiculescu wrote: post #318

Reading this you would think the US is the only country in the world. Why can’t any other country - one that’s more politically or ideologically aligned - fund the PSF? It seems odd the gripes about the US government and its ideologies as if there’s no other options. (Not an American.)

It's a US-based organization discussing funding from the US government. Why would you expect a different focus in an article about that funding?

It's a good point that this is a US-based organization, but I don't think the parent is looking for a different focus from this post. Rather, they're asking that given Python's international influence why aren't organizations from more countries (or the countries themselves) contributing? My gut feeling is that it's because the PSF isn't looking outside the US for those sponsors. Here's their sponsor list btw:

https://www.python.org/psf/sponsors/

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#364

Post by collingreen »

drstewart wrote: post #90
georgemcbay wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Federal funding of research is un-American. Federal funding of research created the Internet that you are posting this idiocy on.

Oh really? So what pro-DEI requirements did the federal funding for that grant require?

What does this even mean? Are you trying to imply that funding for research that lead to the various tech powering the modern internet was done only by organizations that never before or since considered trying to source candidates from a variety of places because they believe different viewpoints have value?

Or are you trying to hang this entire thing on a definition of DEI that somehow always and exclusively means illegal race or gender based discrimination (I assume against white men)?

These conversations are so absurd sometimes. I'm baffled by how spitting mad people can decide they are to fight these straw men. Then I'm annoyed by (and suspicious of) the overwhelming silence from most of these sources when it comes to other obvious examples of racial discrimination or things like the government trying to remove history books that mention slavery.

These things don't look like good faith to me.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#365

Post by dragonwriter »

lenerdenator wrote: post #294
AlSweigart wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who, in 2025, is still giving the Trump administration the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the rule of law?

Roughly half of the country, give or take.

Roughly 40% supports Trump, but they are often quite loud about putting other things above the rule of law.

Not sure why you think roughly 50% give him the benefit of the doubt on dedication to the rule of law.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#366

Post by actionfromafar »

phlakaton wrote: post #284
rdtsc wrote: post #233

Good for them for putting their money where their mouth is and standing up for what they believe. Also, this is a golden opportunity for multi-billion dollar tech companies to also do the same and match or double the grant money in support of PSF! Google, AWS, Microsoft, anyone?

Sorry, I think they're probably all out of funds after chipping in for Trump's new royal ballroom.

Somebody probably really wanted a spot in the new bunker beneath the ballroom.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#367

Post by bcherry »

actionfromafar wrote: post #361
kube-system wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opinion of the current administration is that DEI is illegal, the language is intentionally implying that DEI is illegal discrimination, because that is the view they are trying to advance. Grants are even being terminated for being related to any sort of diversity topic.

Grants are terminated based on keyword matches.

they'd have to be extra careful with cpython, it's got a lot of include

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#368

Post by dragonwriter »

nxobject wrote: post #246
flufluflufluffy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do apply, also for NIH funded research. I work in healthcare research and all the investigators I know have had to go to great lengths to whitewash their grant proposals (you can’t use the word “gender” for example, you must say “difference” instead of “disparity”, etc etc…) It’s absolutely bonkers. However most of the researchers I work with are operating under a “appease the NIH to obtain the grant, but the ju…

> However most of the researchers I work with are operating under a “appease the NIH to obtain the grant, but the just do the research as it was originally intended” approach. It not like the federal government has the ability (or staffing - hah!) to ensure every single awardee is complying with these dystopian requirements. It's also the same program officers stewarding grant administration after administration, any…

> It's also the same program officers stewarding grant administration after administration, anyway.

Historically, yes; as well as firing leadership and moving decisions usually made further down the chain up to the new leadership, this administration has also fired a lot of the existing grant reviewers in most of the big health an science grant-issuing agencies (and probably smaller ones, too, but those would have made fewer headlines) as part of the political purges of, well, a lot of the federal civil service earlier this year.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#369

Post by lotsofpulp »

ModernMech wrote: post #299
jcranmer wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The text is: > we "do not, and will not during the term of this financial assistance award, operate any programs that advance or promote DEI, or discriminatory equity ideology in violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws." There's some ambiguity in syntax as to whether or not "in violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws" attaches to "discriminatory equity ideology" or "any programs that advance or promote DE…

The best and brightest are not working on these matters.They put out work product with misspellings, misstatements, outright lies, and ChatGPT hallucinations. We have to assume any mistakes are unintentional. Maybe if you’re sued, the mistake gets you off the hook in front of a judge, but you should expect to be hassled no matter what the actual text says.

> We have to assume any mistakes are unintentional.

I assume they are intentional. The whole point is to make society less integrity based and more pay to play based. If you’re sufficiently influential, then it’s a mistake that is forgiven. If you aren’t, then you suffer the consequences.

It’s how it works in low trust societies. You haggle for everything, from produce to traffic tickets to building permits to criminal charges. Everything.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#370

Post by ashtonshears »

jkelleyrtp wrote: post #320

In high school, I ran a robotics team that did lots of STEM outreach. We went to community centers, after school programs, and worked with other similar orgs like "girls who code." I think we played an important role in the community. In our mission we stated we wanted to help bring "equity to STEM education." In 2025, according to the current admin's stance on "DEI," my robotics team would not be able to receive gra…

I appreciate your efforts to support community and people
Post reply on HN