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PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

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Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#271

Post by Terr_ »

AlSweigart wrote: post #264
rdtsc wrote: post #233

Good for them for putting their money where their mouth is and standing up for what they believe. Also, this is a golden opportunity for multi-billion dollar tech companies to also do the same and match or double the grant money in support of PSF! Google, AWS, Microsoft, anyone?

I mean, it's also just the plain common sense move: accepting that money would just be putting a noose around their neck and handing the other end to the Trump administration. (And there is a 100.0% chance they'll just claw it back eventually anyway.) It's a shame that months of NSF grant-writing work was completely wasted though.

> putting a noose around their neck and handing the other end to the Trump administration

Pretty much every "negotiation" with the Trump administration seems to work that way: An iterated prisoner's-dilemma, where any cooperation from you just means they'll betray you even harder next time...

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#273

Post by jcranmer »

elicash wrote: post #228

On the one hand, the plain text of the language is not against DEI practices in general -- only DEI practices that are "in violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws." On the other hand, the federal government has gone after law firms that are not actually in violation of law and forced settlements due to their DEI programs, so you can't actually trust that you won't be hassled. Additionally, that you won't at min…

The text is:

> we "do not, and will not during the term of this financial assistance award, operate any programs that advance or promote DEI, or discriminatory equity ideology in violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws."

There's some ambiguity in syntax as to whether or not "in violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws" attaches to "discriminatory equity ideology" or "any programs that advance or promote DEI, or discriminatory equity ideology." Given the (improper) comma before the 'or', I'm inclined to lean towards an intended interpretation of the former. That is to say, the government intends to read the statement as affirming no advancement or promotion of DEI, regardless of whether or not they violate any US laws.

(The current administration also advances the proposition that advancing or promoting DEI itself is a violation of US laws, so it's a rather academic question.)

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#274

Post by valiant55 »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #248
MallocVoidstar wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd assume it parses however the US government wants it to parse.

Lawyers wouldn't have as much job security if commas didn't matter some of the time

This administration is working very hard to make all lawyers redundant. The law doesn't really matter if the court is at the beck and call of the President.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#275

Post by godsinhisheaven »

worik wrote: post #183
dang wrote: post #310

[stub for offtopicness / flamewarness / guideline-breakingness] (this is a rough cut - I know there are other posts left in the thread that arguably belong here, but this time I'm in a bit of a rush) (please, everyone, you can make substantive points thoughtfully but do so within the guardrails at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html - avoid the generic-indignant-flamey-snarky-namecalley-hardcore-battley…

[flagged]

American, you mean American.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#276

Post by rdtsc »

nerevarthelame wrote: post #261
rdtsc wrote: post #233

Good for them for putting their money where their mouth is and standing up for what they believe. Also, this is a golden opportunity for multi-billion dollar tech companies to also do the same and match or double the grant money in support of PSF! Google, AWS, Microsoft, anyone?

If those tech companies make a habit of funding "pro-DEI" organizations, their contracts with the US government could be jeoparized. There's a reason that Google, Amazon, and Microsoft all gave Trump money to demolish the East Wing of the White House and build a ballroom. And it's not their love of ballroom dancing.

Good points. And I'd say that also falls into the "put the money where the mouth is" category. We know where both of those things are for them, so we don't have to have any illusions or fantasies.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#277

Post by adastra22 »

elicash wrote: post #240
adastra22 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conjunction used is "or". It could mean either.

My reading in context is different: https://www.governmentcontractorcomplianceupdate.com/2025/08...

That's a different, non-governmental website?

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#278

Post by mjburgess »

dang wrote: post #310

[stub for offtopicness / flamewarness / guideline-breakingness] (this is a rough cut - I know there are other posts left in the thread that arguably belong here, but this time I'm in a bit of a rush) (please, everyone, you can make substantive points thoughtfully but do so within the guardrails at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html - avoid the generic-indignant-flamey-snarky-namecalley-hardcore-battley…

[flagged]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#279

Post by rileymat2 »

abbycurtis33 wrote: post #218
latexr wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It excludes the many, many more people just don't care about diversity and want the best people in a role regardless of ethnicity or sex or anything else. You often don’t know who the “best” person is for a role until they’re in it. Diversity is good because it allows for different perspectives and catching your own blind spots. Because we don’t understand different backgrounds as well as our own, we can fail to un…

This is mystical thinking. We can establish systems for hiring based on capability.

Sometimes those are directly out of the DEI playbook when you see discrepancies in hiring.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_audition

I'd wager that most directors thought they were picking the person with the most merit, and they seemingly were not.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#280

Post by nsagent » 

  do not, and will not during the term of this financial assistance award, operate any programs that advance or promote DEI, or discriminatory equity ideology in violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws.
The government can certainly add restrictions to the use of the grant money, but applying that broadly over any actions the grantee performs during that time is overreach. I wonder about the legality of that condition.
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