PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program • Hacker News Board

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#261

Post by nerevarthelame » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 9:35 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #233

Good for them for putting their money where their mouth is and standing up for what they believe. Also, this is a golden opportunity for multi-billion dollar tech companies to also do the same and match or double the grant money in support of PSF! Google, AWS, Microsoft, anyone?

If those tech companies make a habit of funding "pro-DEI" organizations, their contracts with the US government could be jeoparized.

There's a reason that Google, Amazon, and Microsoft all gave Trump money to demolish the East Wing of the White House and build a ballroom. And it's not their love of ballroom dancing.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#262

Post by neilcj » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 9:35 PM UTC

dangus wrote: post #215

drstewart wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, better than getting nothing in return for those billions by giving them out to warlords in Africa for luxury cars and airplanes... I mean "aid"

lol, there are so many impeachment-worthy scandals it is hard to keep track of. I completely forgot about the free airplane. Nixon is rolling in his grave with envy. He has to resign over a parking ticket by comparison.

Almost hourly, I am reminded that Jimmy Carter had to put his unprofitable inherited peanut farm in a blind trust.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#263

Post by jl6 » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 9:36 PM UTC

dangus wrote: post #61

aspir wrote: post #29

This isn't good for the PSF, but if these "poison pill" terms are a pattern that applies to all NSF and (presumably) other government research funding, the entire state of modern scientific research is at risk. Regardless of how you, as an individual, might feel about "DEI," imposing onerous political terms on scientific grants harms everyone in the long term.

[flagged]

> if you don’t feel positively about diversity, equity, and inclusion, then you are sending a message that you instead support homogeneity, inequity, and exclusion

No, because we are not talking about Boolean variables where you can discover the logical opposite by negation. These are words with deeply fuzzy meanings. Supporters can support the best possible meanings, and opposers can oppose the worst possible meanings, and be closer to consensus than this binary, polarized, with-us-or-against-us rhetoric might imply.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#264

Post by AlSweigart » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 9:36 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #233

Good for them for putting their money where their mouth is and standing up for what they believe. Also, this is a golden opportunity for multi-billion dollar tech companies to also do the same and match or double the grant money in support of PSF! Google, AWS, Microsoft, anyone?

I mean, it's also just the plain common sense move: accepting that money would just be putting a noose around their neck and handing the other end to the Trump administration. (And there is a 100.0% chance they'll just claw it back eventually anyway.)

It's a shame that months of NSF grant-writing work was completely wasted though.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#265

Post by rat87 » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 9:36 PM UTC

abbycurtis33 wrote: post #218

latexr wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It excludes the many, many more people just don't care about diversity and want the best people in a role regardless of ethnicity or sex or anything else. You often don’t know who the “best” person is for a role until they’re in it. Diversity is good because it allows for different perspectives and catching your own blind spots. Because we don’t understand different backgrounds as well as our own, we can fail to un…

This is mystical thinking. We can establish systems for hiring based on capability.

We can? I'm pretty sure companies have spent billions trying to achieve this and failed. The best they can do is maybe sort of sometime hire people that are good enough

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#266

Post by nicole_express » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 9:36 PM UTC

paulsutter wrote: post #231

If I'm reading that right, it looks like "do not and will not ... operate any programs... in violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws" Did your lawyer say otherwise? Interested to understand > We were forced to withdraw our application and turn down the funding, thanks to new language that was added to the agreement requiring us to affirm that we "do not, and will not during the term of this financial assistance…

The current administration has taken, shall we say, a broad approach to what they consider "in violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws", this clause is suddenly interpreted very differently than in past administrations despite the laws in question not changing.

Therefore, I can definitely see why the PSF's lawyers encouraged giving this clause an extremely wide berth and pulling the grant entirely.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#267

Post by lifeisstillgood » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 9:37 PM UTC

Six million is peanuts for guiding probably the most popular language on the planet these days

I mean is OSS effective despite the funding problem, or if we gave every maintainer a million quid, would they all stop making tough decisions ?

I suspect that it’s the organisations that define the decision quality - but that’s just a hunch.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#268

Post by superconduct123 » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 9:37 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #238

flumpcakes wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that the USA has ever been in such a low standing with the rest of the 'democratic world' in the last 100 years. That's not saying the rest of the world has their stuff together, but it seems that fundamentally un-American ethos is the new nationalist American one that a 1/3 of the country wants. What's happening guys?

About 50 years of slow deliberate destruction of the country's trust in institutions and trustworthy media and communications systems and culture.

I think people were worn down over many years by traditional politicians and just wanted something different

And then someone came in and took advantage of that

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#269

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 9:37 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #233

Good for them for putting their money where their mouth is and standing up for what they believe. Also, this is a golden opportunity for multi-billion dollar tech companies to also do the same and match or double the grant money in support of PSF! Google, AWS, Microsoft, anyone?

> Also, this is a golden opportunity for multi-billion dollar tech companies to also do the same and match or double the grant money in support of PSF! Google, AWS, Microsoft, anyone?

Doing so publicly would undermine the public efforts of the same big tech firms to curry favor from the Trump Administration to secure public contracts, regulatory favors, etc. (including the very public scrapping of their own DEI programs), so I wouldn’t expect it or any other positive public involvement from them that would be connected to this. They’ve already chosen a side in this fight.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#270

Post by pbiggar » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 9:38 PM UTC

elevation wrote: post #207

xeonmc wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder, how likely do you think there would be a retaliatory threat of revoking PSF’s nonprofit status for a perceived snub in rejecting the offer?

The IRS has withheld 501(c) status from the president’s perceived adversaries before[0]. But I haven’t heard of 501(c) status being revoked. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy

The Trump administration is definitively coming after 501c3s. I run a nonprofit and all the movement around us has been preparing for this since these laws were first announced. Ironcically, the laws to investigate nonprofits were first proposed under the Biden administration to attack the Palestine movement, and like most things in the Palestine movement, they were quickly turned against the rest of the country.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-trump-administration-is-comi...