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You are how you act

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171–180 of 199 posts

Re: You are how you act

#171
post #111

> “Fake it until you make it” is often dismissed as shallow, but it’s closer to Franklin’s truth. Faking it long enough is making it. The repetition of behavior, not the sincerity of belief, is what shapes character. You become the kind of person who does the things you repeatedly do. Then you become the kind of person who fakes things?

Exactly, and it has the potential to really burn others as well as yourself, when they do their work/job on top of what you claimed you had. I am not a fan of the "fake it til you make it" approach.

Re: You are how you act

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are changed by the intention behind your decisions. Someone who continually chooses to do things out of greed turns into a greedier person. Someone who continually chooses compassion becomes a more compassionate person. Even if the external outcome is the same, the direction towards which the person evolves is vastly different. And when lifted out of a narrow thought experiment, in real life, who you are does det…

Maybe this is how it works, but how can we know this? It could also be that doing good things for selfish reasons creates habits of doing good things, and after a while that is who you are and what you do.

There’s some real research into relevant topics and evidence-based models of how and why people change.

Generally, a period of ambivalence precedes change (most of the time, though there are documented cases of “quantum change” where a person undergoes a difficult change in a single moment without the usual intermediate stages and never relapses).

Ambivalence exists when a person knows in their mind reasons both for and against a change, and gives both more or less an equal mind share.

When that person begins to give an outsized share of their attention to engaging with thoughts aligned with the change, it predicts growing commitment and ultimately follow-through on the change.

The best resource I know of on this topic is “Motivational Interviewing” in its 3rd or 4th edition. It has a very extensive bibliography and the model of change it presents has proven itself an effective predictor of change in clinical practice.

Based on my understanding of that research, I’m inclined to agree with GP.

Re: You are how you act

#173
You learn to act by doing it.

The more you do it, the more automatic it is.

For example: I took ritalin on and off but with long enough phases, that I do have behavour patterns were i act like i was on ritalin (cleaning stuff etc.)

I also thought about people who drunk a lot more alcohol when they were younger: they learned how to be a certain way because they were able to act like this by drinking alcohol.

I took MDMA a lot later in life and when i was, i definitly had like a 'MDMA dance echo' in my brain after.

Re: You are how you act

#174
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is how it works, but how can we know this? It could also be that doing good things for selfish reasons creates habits of doing good things, and after a while that is who you are and what you do.

There’s some real research into relevant topics and evidence-based models of how and why people change. Generally, a period of ambivalence precedes change (most of the time, though there are documented cases of “quantum change” where a person undergoes a difficult change in a single moment without the usual intermediate stages and never relapses). Ambivalence exists when a person knows in their mind reasons both for…

That's very insightful. Could you share some references for further reading? I'd like to explore this topic a bit on my own.

Re: You are how you act

#175

This reminded me of this passage from Anxiety Is the Dizziness of Freedom by Ted Chiang: > None of us are saints, but we can all try to be better. Each time you do something generous, you're shaping yourself into someone who's more likely to be generous next time, and that matters.

The soul takes on the color of its thoughts - Marcus Aurelius. In context, he wrote about the reams of thoughts that fly in our heads and how we automatically rubber stamp most of them as "true".

Re: You are how you act

#176

I find the Franklin model far more useful [...] because it gives you agency. Does it? If our present actions make our future selves, that means our past actions made our present self. The moments in a person's life are a row of dominoes, one causing the next. There is no agency anywhere.

This sounds like me always complaining about "Past Me"'s tech debt. Or when tech debt is being introduced, my team jokes about it being "Future Me"'s problem. It's good for a chuckle, but obviously there is continuity of identity. But continuity is not immutability. Your actions are a present thing, and define you in the present. Past actions may have consequences, but you are always free to act differently now. Like…

We may be talking about two different things. When you say "Past actions may have consequences, but you are always free to act differently now.", I believe you mean that as in "just because you have ordered chocolate ice cream every time in the past does not mean it's impossible for you to order vanilla the next time", yes?

Whereas what I am talking about is "all of your past experiences, the circumstances of your birth, your genetic predispositions and the weather in Myanmar, have created a world-state in which you choose chocolate today. By definition, you will choose chocolate."

My point is that there is no "you" which makes choices in the present, independent from the circumstances which created it.

Re: You are how you act

#177

More moral grandstanding and "advice" from the CTO of one of the most immoral corporations in the world. Never ceases to amaze me how highly these people think of themselves while they build and work for companies that consistently engage in morally bankrupt behavior. Talk about a complete lack of self-awareness.

It's almost like people are using some kind of technology that lets them live in personalized bubbles with a conveniently simplified version of reality.

Re: You are how you act

#178
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s some real research into relevant topics and evidence-based models of how and why people change. Generally, a period of ambivalence precedes change (most of the time, though there are documented cases of “quantum change” where a person undergoes a difficult change in a single moment without the usual intermediate stages and never relapses). Ambivalence exists when a person knows in their mind reasons both for…

That's very insightful. Could you share some references for further reading? I'd like to explore this topic a bit on my own.

The main resource that I recommend is the one towards the bottom of the comment: “Motivational Interviewing” by W.R. Miller and Stephen Rollnick. I’ve read the third and fourth editions. The third edition is more concrete but also more complex, and more focused on the field of clinical psychology, while the fourth edition is a shorter book where it’s been generalized more to be more applicable to all kinds of helping relationships, but contains fewer specific examples of clinical practice.

In the second edition they had not yet broken up the concept of “resistance” into “sustain talk” and “discord,” which I found to be a helpful distinction.

About 10% of the book is its bibliography, so if you want more information about a specific claim you can usually find the primary source by following the reference.

Miller and Rollnick are the ones who developed the technique of motivational interviewing, so they have a strong connection to much of the research cited.

Re: You are how you act

#179
Rousseau was famous for saying that man is born free and is everywhere in chains. He advocated for self rule and formulation of laws by the people. Yet after 100s of years of democracy (thousands really) the corrupting influence of social norms has not really been remedied.

Inequalities still exist,corruption still happens and social institutions that were once liberating become oppressive over time.

His ideal of self governance has not been realised as most nation states have adopted a representative democracy. People don't really make the rules. They just handover the power to someone else who makes them on their behalf.

It's certainly right that Franklin believed in practicing virtue. He famously kept a log of his good and bad actions.

Yet there is another great philosopher that has had tremendous impact on American society whom the author has not mentioned. Emerson believed in transcending societal definition of virtue and vice and follow one's own inclinations. His ideas of self reliance resonated with American people and brought about a change in their thinking when they started to believe in themselves rather than looking to Europe for intellectual guidance.

I find it difficult to accept either Franklin's or Rousseau's view as they were more politically motivated—Rousseau wanted his social contract,Franklin worshiped Socrates but when it came to governence he kicked him aside to chose democracy,an idea that was popular at the time due to thinkers like Locke.

Emerson gave people true agency over their lives and inspired them to think critically and not sheepishly believe a thing to be good or bad. He was more revolutionary than Franklin (Self reliance was released around the time of civil war) and gave people courage to question institutional authority and he eventually became more impactful than Rousseau's collectivism.

Re: You are how you act

#180
post #13

[flagged]

Can we please not play this internet game here?

"This is [sarcastic reference] coming from [personal reference] who [cherry-picked outrage bit]" is a trope that doesn't lead anywhere interesting. It ratchets up indignation, fries curiosity, and removes any semblance of ontopicness.

Also, I assume that's a skewed pseudo-quotation since no one would actually say that. Please don't play that internet game here either.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

p.s. You're a good commenter otherwise and I even put https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26787519 in https://news.ycombinator.com/highlights.

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