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PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

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Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#101
post #29

This isn't good for the PSF, but if these "poison pill" terms are a pattern that applies to all NSF and (presumably) other government research funding, the entire state of modern scientific research is at risk. Regardless of how you, as an individual, might feel about "DEI," imposing onerous political terms on scientific grants harms everyone in the long term.

The requirement that grantees not violate existing laws is common in Federal grants. Taking umbrage with the DEI coloration on this entirely reasonable and standard requirement is absurd. There could be a long laundry list of such clauses that all have equally zero weight ("don't promote illegal drug trafficking", "don't promote illegal insider trading", ...).

If it has zero weight, why would the grant agreement specifically highlight it? I would guess it's much easier to enforce a particular interpretation of the law via a grant agreement than having to argue it in court.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#102
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I am going to going even further than you and suggest if you are an American do not support America First, that means you instead support America Last. If you believe that, you should think about what other countries and groups support those kinds of things, and what kind of company supporting terrorist groups puts you in. No, there isn't a legitimate reason not to want America First. Yes, it's important we call out…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! I want to bring this up as a discussion point when I get the chance at work. I can't find a date on this letter - is it recent?

I'm rather baffled at the spike in HN folks missing obvious dates. You're not the first..

I'm on mobile and missed it. My bad for the spam.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#104

So, all these clauses where changed back in Feb/ March. They definitely had to agree to the amendments on their grants, and they still had funding until October 1st. So, I feel like this is revisionist history because they would have been notified way before today to renew thier grant. So they signed the amendments and spent the money...

> In January 2025, the PSF submitted a proposal to the US government National Science Foundation under the Safety, Security, and Privacy of Open Source Ecosystems program to address structural vulnerabilities in Python and PyPI.

> It was the PSF’s first time applying for government funding.

It doesn't seem to be a renewal, and they seem to have applied before the clauses were added.

- - -

Additionally, on September 29, 2025, the NSF posted

> The U.S. National Science Foundation announced the first-ever Safety, Security, and Privacy of Open-Source Ecosystems (NSF Safe-OSE) investment in an inaugural cohort of 8 teams

Implying that until that point, there was no distribution of funds as part of Safe-OSE, so no prior years of funding existed

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#105
post #29

This isn't good for the PSF, but if these "poison pill" terms are a pattern that applies to all NSF and (presumably) other government research funding, the entire state of modern scientific research is at risk. Regardless of how you, as an individual, might feel about "DEI," imposing onerous political terms on scientific grants harms everyone in the long term.

They do apply, also for NIH funded research. I work in healthcare research and all the investigators I know have had to go to great lengths to whitewash their grant proposals (you can’t use the word “gender” for example, you must say “difference” instead of “disparity”, etc etc…) It’s absolutely bonkers. However most of the researchers I work with are operating under a “appease the NIH to obtain the grant, but the ju…

[flagged]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You either think DEI is about taking jobs from white people and giving them to undeserving others, or that the deserving are spread across different races and genders etc. and we should capture that better. If you're in the former group just man up and say it, don't waste our time with the equivocating, "so the government just doesn't want people to discriminate and that's a problem???"

Uh, what? There's no contradiction, or even tension, between these three positions: 1. "DEI is about taking jobs from white people and giving them to undeserving others" 2. "the deserving are spread across different races and genders etc. and we should capture that better" 3. "so the government just doesn't want people to discriminate and that's a problem???" so what exactly are you trying to say?

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Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#107

So, all these clauses where changed back in Feb/ March. They definitely had to agree to the amendments on their grants, and they still had funding until October 1st. So, I feel like this is revisionist history because they would have been notified way before today to renew thier grant. So they signed the amendments and spent the money...

> In January 2025, the PSF submitted a proposal to the US government National Science Foundation under the Safety, Security, and Privacy of Open Source Ecosystems program to address structural vulnerabilities in Python and PyPI. > It was the PSF’s first time applying for government funding. It doesn't seem to be a renewal, and they seem to have applied before the clauses were added. - - - Additionally, on September 2…

[deleted]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#108
post #29

This isn't good for the PSF, but if these "poison pill" terms are a pattern that applies to all NSF and (presumably) other government research funding, the entire state of modern scientific research is at risk. Regardless of how you, as an individual, might feel about "DEI," imposing onerous political terms on scientific grants harms everyone in the long term.

The direction of political winds shift over time. An organization like the PSF cannot assume an open-ended liability like that. DEI today, but what tomorrow? As we have seen, political leadership in the US has shown itself to be unreliable, pernicious, and vindictive. US leadership is undermined by the politicization of these grants. That is something that members of this community, largely a US-based, VC-oriented au…

[deleted]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#109
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If psf wants supports ten conferences and 9 of them have a typical gender ratio of 7:3 (males:females) and so they support 1 conference with a gender ratio of 3:7, then I think they're in violation of these terms. Was PSF acting in a discriminatory manner by supporting the tenth conference?

If they picked any of the conferences based on the gender of the attendees, then they were pretty obviously discriminating based on a protected characteristic and should face legal ramifications for it.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#110
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do apply, also for NIH funded research. I work in healthcare research and all the investigators I know have had to go to great lengths to whitewash their grant proposals (you can’t use the word “gender” for example, you must say “difference” instead of “disparity”, etc etc…) It’s absolutely bonkers. However most of the researchers I work with are operating under a “appease the NIH to obtain the grant, but the ju…

[flagged]

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