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Ask HN: Not treated respectfully by colleague – advice?

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Re: Ask HN: Not treated respectfully by colleague – advice?

#101

Post by feydaykyn »

golly_ned wrote: post #34
feydaykyn wrote: post #13

Have you discussed with HR? Toxic employees should be their responsibility too. As others suggested, take note and proof. Start by copying the exact same content you've published here, and complete it with new toxic behaviour. What will create a body of proofs HR will need and will "expel it" from your head. I would also meet your manager's manager, this situation has taken too long to resolve and your manager is not…

I haven't, because I want the support of my manager, and he's resistant to going to HR because he is afraid of looking bad to our director. Really crappy situation. Another thing is: it's really difficult to point to specific cases that really are "HR-worthy". That's the nature of passive-aggressive behavior. His treatment of another engineer, who has since been fired for performance, early this year really did quali…

Your phrasing makes it totally HR worthy to my mind, especially if the only thing justifying keeping him (experience) is not there.

I was going to give you more advice, but actually here the only one that matters : get counceling/coaching help outside the company, with someone specialised in work related topics. You need someone on your side, to listen, give you fact based advices, discuss strategies, challenge you. It's a very stressful situation, get all the help you can!

Re: Ask HN: Not treated respectfully by colleague – advice?

#102

Post by stonecharioteer »

golly_ned wrote: post #33
bitbasher wrote: post #3

Life's too short-- tell your manager you can't work like this. You resign unless something is done about it. If they value you, something will be done about it.

Pretty much everything else about my job is basically my dream job. I don't think the "it's him or me" position will work out, especially given I'm more two levels more senior. I think that would just cause me to lose a lot of trust either way. I'd rather fix his behavior, or have him encouraged to move teams without me threatening to leave.

I've been in this scenario a couple of times. I see no reprise here

People. Pay. Work.

You'll only get one good thing at any company. One other thing will be decent. The third one will inevitably be nonsense. Choose to stay or leave depending on this rule.

Re: Ask HN: Not treated respectfully by colleague – advice?

#103

Post by codeduck »

zepolen wrote: post #66
codeduck wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will solve nothing. Best case OP 'wins' ands the competent jerk becomes even more difficult, worst case OP 'loses' and loses any authority. OP is being too nice. He is the team lead. His job is to lead, ands sometimes leaders have to be direct and harsh.

Lmfao at direct and harsh, that's not a leader, that's a boss. Leaders show the way, bosses tell the way, you my friend are neither. The difference between you and me is that I've got the experience to have seen this play out multiple times, you on the other hand are making baseless assumptions. Don't ask my rate, you can't afford it.

Sure, mate - whatever you need to tell yourself.

Re: Ask HN: Not treated respectfully by colleague – advice?

#104

Post by aleph_minus_one »

omosubi wrote: post #77

a few ideas: - see if he can be put on a project that he has complete autonomy over that is separate from the normal work that you are doing. or try and come up with something that he could do separately and doesn't need to be in meetings. - split the team up so that he leads his own team. if he's that bad the people on his team will leave and his behavior will be that much more obvious. if he's a good engineer maybe…

> if he's that bad the people on his team will leave and his behavior will be that much more obvious.

Often not true: while such people don't do great (programming) work, they are very political adept (which also includes being good at bullying outsiders), so often being a "disciple" of them is very useful for your career. So, while many people may not particularly "like" such a person, they often become "disciple" of him for such a self-interest.

Re: Ask HN: Not treated respectfully by colleague – advice?

#105

Post by dpark »

5Qn8mNbc2FNCiVV wrote: post #91
dpark wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t do this in front of the team. This sort of message should be delivered privately. Doubt this is the way to go anyway but it’s definitely not something to say during the meeting.

I would 100% do it anytime because at some point enough is enough and you as the lead should have the backbone to put him into place. Best things is he shuts up forever, worst thing is he get's pissed off, goes to the manager and the manager sides with you anyways because you're known to be a good employee and he quits by himself/gets fired. Obviously this is a rare thing to do, but from reading the other comments it…

Worst thing is that the team dynamic gets even worse, the guy becomes bitter and impossible to work with, and management punishes you for unprofessional and inappropriate behavior.

Re: Ask HN: Not treated respectfully by colleague – advice?

#106

Post by cwmoore »

29athrowaway wrote: post #63
cwmoore wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Do not reward aggression towards you with attention and empathy.” Source? I really dislike this style of framing.

Why would you let yourself be drained of your energy by someone who is determined to undermine your role and create a precedent that you can be disrespected without consequences? Not only having to tolerate the person but giving them your time and attention? Using your energy that would otherwise be meant to do your job efficiently, advance your career and meet expectations outside of work with your family and friend…

What is the name of this philosophy you espouse? I am assuming it exists because you seem deeply committed.

Seems to apply simple, clear, and rigid moral determinations to a soft and very complex subject.

Re: Ask HN: Not treated respectfully by colleague – advice?

#108

Post by throwaway290 »

karlitooo wrote: post #87
throwaway290 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 100x. But it's not for everyone. If like me you are not good at social stuff it is hard to just get on this casual level and say "so what's been going on? those deadlines amirite?" to who you think is your enemy but it can lead to very nice results and +100 social XP Maybe it turns out he is nice and all you need is to treat him so like he feels he's respected by you. Give him important jobs etc. It's easier aft…

I've had mixed success with this. It works when you have a nice person going through a tough time in their life who doesn't realise they are reacting badly to everything. I don't think that applies here because this person seems to believe their rudeness is justifiable. A habit of being an asshole is not cost effective to fix. And giving validation to their belief that they should have "important jobs" just gives the…

> And giving validation to their belief that they should have "important jobs" just gives them real power to bully you more.

I think this guy's manager said he won't fire or move him. So then if to avoid sabotage you must respect him and give him important tasks then that's what you do. Even if you think it harms the company. Then you show how it harm the company and you win.

Re: Ask HN: Not treated respectfully by colleague – advice?

#109

Post by 29athrowaway »

cwmoore wrote: post #106
29athrowaway wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you let yourself be drained of your energy by someone who is determined to undermine your role and create a precedent that you can be disrespected without consequences? Not only having to tolerate the person but giving them your time and attention? Using your energy that would otherwise be meant to do your job efficiently, advance your career and meet expectations outside of work with your family and friend…

What is the name of this philosophy you espouse? I am assuming it exists because you seem deeply committed. Seems to apply simple, clear, and rigid moral determinations to a soft and very complex subject.

- You cannot control others, only how you respond and what you allow into your life (Stoicism)

- You can be kind, but you also have to be kind to yourself (psychology)

- Collaboration works only when participants share goals (game theory)

- Everyone contributes to one shared output (systems thinking)

- Respecting your profession and honoring the effort that got you to your position (Aristotelian and Confucian role ethics)

- Success comes from discipline, self-restraint and honoring your responsibilities (meritocratic work ethic)

- Identity (and therefore respect) is not reducible to your role, position, recognition, skill level, or socioeconomic status (Eastern philosophy)

Re: Ask HN: Not treated respectfully by colleague – advice?

#110

Post by [deleted] »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #75
golly_ned wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much everything else about my job is basically my dream job. I don't think the "it's him or me" position will work out, especially given I'm more two levels more senior. I think that would just cause me to lose a lot of trust either way. I'd rather fix his behavior, or have him encouraged to move teams without me threatening to leave.

If you are two levels above the guy, why isn’t management taking you seriously? Have you considered going to your skip about this? Seems appropriate if you’re being ignored.

[deleted]
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