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California invests in battery energy storage, leaving rolling blackouts behind

latimes.com

101–110 of 363 posts

Re: California invests in battery energy storage, leaving rolling blackouts behind

#101
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh... "Wh" is not a unit of power. Watts are units of power. Watt-hours measure energy. Probably journalists are getting this wrong for the same reason you are.

I do not know why this particular one gets engineers so annoyed. Energy and power are synonymous in conversation with normal people. There is very little real world scenarios where people would be exposed to the precise meanings -of course everyone gets it wrong.

But the premise of the comment I was replying to was exasperation that journalists got it wrong!

Re: California invests in battery energy storage, leaving rolling blackouts behind

#102
post #41

Interesting how they never mention that these are Tesla Megapack 2 XL units (LFP chemistry) manufactured at Tesla’s Lathrop, CA “Megafactory.”

That information does not fit the narrative so it is left unsaid.

How do you know that's the reason?

Re: California invests in battery energy storage, leaving rolling blackouts behind

#103

> they burn extremely hot and cannot be extinguished with water, which can trigger a violent chemical reaction. The blaze emitted dangerous levels of nickel, cobalt and manganese > In the first six months of this year, CAISO’s grid was powered by 100% clean energy for an average of almost seven hours each day. emitted dangerous levels of nickel, cobalt and manganese 100% clean energy

While virtually no technology is clean if you count "what happens if it catches on fire"; I think it's still likely that this is much better than the status quo.

Re: California invests in battery energy storage, leaving rolling blackouts behind

#104
post #89
post #63

The electricity mix in France is still way cleaner than in California: - France: https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/FR/5y/yearly - California: https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US-CAL-CISO/5y/year... And their kWh costs less than 20 Cents in the standard plan: - https://particulier.edf.fr/content/dam/2-Actifs/Documents/Of... They even offer flex prices going down as low as 12,32 Cents/kWh. Nuclear power…

Good luck building nuclear in non-generational timescales and at reasonable prices. The future is solar simply because these electricity catchers from the sky fusion are mass producible goods that you can just keep pumping and pointing it to the sky in matter of days at dirt cheap prices.

also because it is modular which really works for the Global south, it can be taken to demand centers and demand adjusted to the supply to a small extent (e.g. irrigation pumps)

Re: California invests in battery energy storage, leaving rolling blackouts behind

#105

This is the way. It's become standard practice in China, which now leads to the world with half of all battery installations.

Much as i dislike China i feel they are pragmatic. I don't know if it's justified but i always give them the benefit of the doubt that they don't do stupid things for no good reason. Unlike Western nations who have to please voters and look good, China has no such constraints and are far more transactional. They don't care about climate emissions. At all. If they think something will be good for them and their econom…

A lot depends on long term planning but the planning better be right. In my opinion, the markets are much better than planning.

Re: California invests in battery energy storage, leaving rolling blackouts behind

#106
post #63

The electricity mix in France is still way cleaner than in California: - France: https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/FR/5y/yearly - California: https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US-CAL-CISO/5y/year... And their kWh costs less than 20 Cents in the standard plan: - https://particulier.edf.fr/content/dam/2-Actifs/Documents/Of... They even offer flex prices going down as low as 12,32 Cents/kWh. Nuclear power…

Quebec has them both beat. Hydro rules!

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/CA-QC/5y/yearly

(To be transparent, there's controversy around calling hydroelectric renewable.)

Re: California invests in battery energy storage, leaving rolling blackouts behind

#107
post #92
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck building nuclear in non-generational timescales and at reasonable prices. The future is solar simply because these electricity catchers from the sky fusion are mass producible goods that you can just keep pumping and pointing it to the sky in matter of days at dirt cheap prices.

> Good luck building nuclear in non-generational timescales and at reasonable prices. Or we could treat nuclear rationally and stop increasing the price three orders of magnitude past diminishing returns..

[deleted]

Re: California invests in battery energy storage, leaving rolling blackouts behind

#108
post #26

There's this post about sodium-ion batteries from two days ago - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45677243 My understanding is that they are particularly good for large scale storage. It looks like it's relevant part of China's strategy. Yet, there seems to be close to 0 in the US in general (except from some pilots). I find it weird at least to boast about battery energy storage as a strategy while ignoring the…

While Sodium Ion may be the future of grid batteries, it's not the present. As long as LFP is cheaper, there is no reason to go with Sodium. This calculus will probably change in 3-5 years, but today Sodium is more expensive and therefore has little demand without some form of discount or subsidy. The switch will be rapid once the economics make sense, but they don't yet.

CATL is claiming mass production of their sodium-ion batteries starts in December, with a target price of $10/kWh. If that ends up even partway true it'll completely change the economics of power storage.

Re: California invests in battery energy storage, leaving rolling blackouts behind

#109
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interesting how they never mention that these are Tesla Megapack 2 XL units It's a story about California's battery storage. Tesla hasn't built all of that capacity. For a Tesla (or other battery producer) press release? Sure. For an article about the general phenomenon? Irrelevant to the point that if it were included I'd be suspicious of the article being a plant.

By my estimate (GPT5) Tesla has up to 17% of all front and behind the meter battery storage in CA, and is also the vendor growing the fastest in CA. The California battery storage story is also a Tesla story, but based on the positive tone of the article, it clearly made more sense to leave Tesla out of it.

> By my estimate (GPT5)

Please don't do this.

Re: California invests in battery energy storage, leaving rolling blackouts behind

#110
post #92
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck building nuclear in non-generational timescales and at reasonable prices. The future is solar simply because these electricity catchers from the sky fusion are mass producible goods that you can just keep pumping and pointing it to the sky in matter of days at dirt cheap prices.

> Good luck building nuclear in non-generational timescales and at reasonable prices. Or we could treat nuclear rationally and stop increasing the price three orders of magnitude past diminishing returns..

> Or we could treat nuclear rationally and stop increasing the price three orders of magnitude past diminishing returns

Who is we here? Do you have examples of any countries having successfully done what you are proposing?

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