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Harnessing America's heat pump moment

heatpumped.org

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Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#111

Post by Merad »

blahedo wrote: post #33

People are reluctant to install them because they don't work as well as the good old boilers we'd be replacing. I'm not saying they can't, and I'm not saying that there are zero models out there that work. But in practice, a lot of us that have interacted with heat pumps have the specific experience that they get anemic as the temperature goes down and eventually become unable to do much of anything. I live in the mi…

I have to agree. I've spent about 2/3s my life in houses with heat pumps and the last 5 years with a gas furnace (the rest being wood heat as a child). Mostly in Western NC and Eastern TN near the mountains, so chilly but not extreme cold.

Heat pumps work, but they aren't nearly as _pleasant_. You can write essays about the efficiency of heat pumps, how lukewarm air works just fine to warm the house, how heat pumps are great _most of the time_ and you can supplement with space heaters or whatever when they fall short... But as long as furnaces are accessible and affordable, an awful lot of people are going to choose to have nice warm heat that is always going to be nice and warm regardless of the outside temperature.

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#113

Post by nine_k »

DazWilkin wrote: post #103

I live in a community in the Pacific Northwest that was built in 2018 and (almost) every home (22/23) has (Carrier) heat pumps; for some unknown reason, the other has heated floors. Many of us are proponents of heat pumps thanks to reduced costs and emissions *but* we've not had a generally good experience possibly (!) as a result of bad installation and definitely due to limited numbers of indoor heads (if I close m…

Looks like poor installation.

I've spent 1.5 years in a brand-new building with Mitsubishi heat pumps. It had some initial trouble with a faulty electronic component, but afterwards it worked quite fine, needing little if any attention.

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#114

Post by bethekidyouwant »

LgWoodenBadger wrote: post #90
bethekidyouwant wrote: post #85

I moved from gas boiler to electric years ago and would like to move to an electric heat pump hybrid, but it doesn’t exist. Moment lost.

What do you mean when you say “heat pump hybrid?”

Well, they have electric boilers, gas boilers, and gas/heat pump hybrid boilers. but not restive/heat pump hybrids. (for houses heated with hot water) I suppose this is because the return temperature to the boiler is already 50 Celsius so the heat pump can’t help you at all

Edit: Oh actually, I was wrong.(and I guess it makes sense. It would suffer the same problems as an electric hybrid) There is no hybrid gas heat pump for hydronic heating. Basically my entire city is hydronic heating so heat pumps are not an option. However

a bunch of my neighbours have heat pumps and I suppose it’s just heating one room in their house and it’s not even connected to the thermostat of their hydronic heater in any way.. Seems pretty silly to me. At least you get an air conditioner out of the deal so that you can use more electricity in the summer.

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#115

Post by TimTheTinker »

crote wrote: post #110
TimTheTinker wrote: post #77

All this push to electrify everything makes me nervous, as it effectively centralizes a lever that someone evil enough could use to coerce the general public in unsavory ways. I'm doubly suspicious of areas that combine mass-electrification with reducing availability of the most reliable alternate source of electricity (i.e. generators). California in particular is pushing to make generators increasingly hard to obta…

What makes you believe the same doesn't already apply to natural gas, or petrol? Besides, coercing the general public like that generally doesn't end well: people tend to get annoyed when their basic needs of survival aren't being met - especially if it is a deliberate choice. The people in power will be gone within days.

Modern coercion happens far more subtly and less overtly than it did in 20th century totalitarian regimes. The proletariat isn't the only group that learned lessons from that period of time.

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#116

Post by danielodievich »

Right as COVID lockdowns were starting in early 2020, our gas furnace reached the state of nearly broken and would have been unfixable if it finally broke. We called local HVAC for a quote and they convinced that instead of simply replacing the furnace, we should get full-house air conditioning with electric heat pump with gas furnace backup. We agreed and what was amazing was that they wanted to install it the NEXT DAY. Unprecedented speed. This was because it was COVID and everyone was stopping construction projects etc. Their technicians were ready to go and needed all the work. Next day wasn't good so we installed it the next next day. 4 burly guys, all masked and gloved, did it all in just a few hours. Our friends trying to do the same couple of years ago had to wait months for installation. We've been enjoying AC since then, a lot.

I think it cost about $13k for heat pump and furnace and labor, maybe a bit more with tax, and I got ~1.7k rebate/refund of some sorts? Or 1.3k? I don't fully recall why but it must have been government sponsored.

My ongoing energy costs are about the same, but the mix completely switched from gas to electricity. I cook with gas so there is just a bit every month, but virtually no heating with it, the gas hardly ever starts except in the height of winter. If I only had solar to feed it with sun, but the house location with shade, hill and trees isn't suited for it. Instead I pay a little extra to energy company to presumably source my electricity from solar. Works.

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#117

Post by notyourwork »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #80
Glyptodon wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do newer ones somehow not need ducts? Edit: (or so you mean mini splits?)

No, no ductless magic without mini splits. I feel like a lot of people refer to heat pump systems interchangeably with ductless mini splits, so I wanted to clarify that. Maybe that's just an issue with the people I speak with, though.

You are right. Most do heat pumps with mini splits for each zone. However, ducted houses can certainly use heat pumps with an air handler. Typically this translates to heat pump replaced outdoor condenser (ac unit)and the air handler replaces the indoor furnace.

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#118

Post by pureagave »

ssuds wrote: post #96
darth_avocado wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in California, I have two heat pumps installed. I can sum up the problems as follows: 1. They are EXPENSIVE. The equipment itself isn’t that expensive tbh but installation is pretty expensive. The government subsidies have made sure that the contractors jack up their own prices by as much. 2. I end up paying more in utilities because electricity is very expensive and heat pumps aren’t nearly as good at heating in…

I wrote an op-ed in the SF Chronicle a few months ago about electricity costs in California holding back electrification, it's a real challenge: https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/heat-p... That said, I've found that in most cases (assuming you're on the right electric rate plan, that's a whole other conversation, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42763695 ), most homeowners in california ac…

Electricity prices in San Francisco are so bad that it makes gasoline a reasonable alternative to an electric car.

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#119

Post by notyourwork »

Loughla wrote: post #100
mithr wrote: post #26

Electricity costs are a big factor in this, imo. Rates for my northeast town increased by ~25% in 2024 and are going up by another ~10% this year. It's a hard sell to spend a large amount of up-front money (even after rebates, which decreased this year) to convert to a system that will cost you more than you pay today, and may not work as well in cold weather (every heat pump company I talked to suggested keeping my…

Our heat pump for HVAC is awesome. Until it gets under 30. Then you can watch the power meter crank when auxiliary heat kicks on. And we only keep it 65 in the house in the winter. Luckily I live in the upper Midwest, so it's only that cold for like 4 months. . . Pretty cool. P.r.e.t.t.y. cool

Some heat pumps are rated for much lower temps.

Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment

#120

Post by thevillagechief »

darth_avocado wrote: post #57
galoisscobi wrote: post #3

> we’re waiting on people Right on. I have a heat pump water heater and a heat pump heating system in my HVAC. Getting those installed felt like swimming upstream. Most contractors would try to dissuade me from them. Luckily, I found a contractor who was skilled and knowledgeable about heat pumps and rebates (back when govt thought climate change was real). Very happy with my heat pump tech.

I’m in California, I have two heat pumps installed. I can sum up the problems as follows: 1. They are EXPENSIVE. The equipment itself isn’t that expensive tbh but installation is pretty expensive. The government subsidies have made sure that the contractors jack up their own prices by as much. 2. I end up paying more in utilities because electricity is very expensive and heat pumps aren’t nearly as good at heating in…

I got a heat pump with a backup gas furnace this year. A heat pump just felt like a no-brainer of I was going to get an AC anyway. But gas in PA tends to be cheaper, so the system will use gas at a certain point. The problem is I couldn't have picked a whose installer if I was throwing darts at the wall, but that's another story.
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