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Life as a Service

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Life as a Service

#71

Post by gaius »

po wrote: post #58
mibbitier wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've never understood, is why a seemingly large number of Americans don't seem to see the similarity between public fire protection, and a public health service. Aren't these two things pretty essential for civilisation?

In some places, fire protection is apparently up for debate. This family had their house burn down because they failed to pay the $75 tax. It's only fair after all: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/tennessee-family-home-b... I think it's even been given the unfortunate name 'pay to spray'. Fire prevention is just as much up for debate amongst people of a certain ideological bent as healthcare. It's the next logic…

Flip it around tho', they were asking firefighters to quite literally risk their lives for them, when they weren't even community-spirited enough to contribute towards the common good. Unless you have the plague, a doctor doesn't take nearly the same personal risk as a firefighter.

Re: Life as a Service

#72

Post by _pferreir_ »

phn wrote: post #28
_pferreir_ wrote: post #15

I think "Life as a Slave" would have been more suitable.

Have you read anything at all about slavery? Compared to that, being a citizen with rights as well as obligations is a huge blessing.

I have read about slavery of course, and I'm aware of what the word means. I obviously didn't meant "slave" in the traditional, historical sense.

Actually, the OED defines "slave" as "One who is the property of, and entirely subject to, another person, whether by capture, purchase, or birth". That's quite a broad definition, isn't it?

Yes, I know I am really fortunate by comparison with most of the world's population, but that's not enough for me, I am sorry. I tend not to look to whatever I have as "blessings", I guess I'm one of the "half-empty" guys.

Re: Life as a Service

#73

Post by edanm »

A few of these points are interesting, because things don't have to be that way (e.g. various government-granted monopolies).

But most of these points are uninteresting, in the sense that I cannot easily imagine alternatives. Public goods are a simple example - there's an economic reason it is not possible to let people opt-out of public goods: you can't not protect some people, so it is in their interest to opt-out and receive protection anyway. So everyone will opt-out.

I have a lot of respect for jacquesmattheij, and I love posts that make us reconsider basic assumptions of our society and decide whether they're good or not. Even as a philsophical exercise and without a practical angle, it's interesting. But most of the complaints here don't come with an alternative, so what are we supposed to do with them?

Re: Life as a Service

#74

Post by flyinRyan »

The worst part is: if you're a US citizen you're still "opted in" to paying taxes even after you don't live there and no longer use any of the services. In some cases, even if you've never lived there at all or even speak the language (hint: you can get american citizenship from being born on the soil or having a single biological parent who was).

Re: Life as a Service

#75

Post by jofo25 »

> And if a substantial number of them would opt-out that would be a much clearer sign than any elections ever could give that that society was on the wrong track.

I think this is a pretty interesting comment. It sparked the idea of a 'tax-free' zone in each country in my head. Like a area of each country with no government infrastructure or intervention. The proportion of population living in these zones would really give a good indicator of how the countries are treating it's citizens. People would be free to cross this fence whenever they wanted.

But in reality I don't think any country would want to give up land for such means.

Re: Life as a Service

#76

Post by Jare »

Zak wrote: post #35
msluyter wrote: post #26

"Even so, I’d be a lot happier paying taxes if there had been a moment where I was given the choice: pay taxes and have these benefits or be left to your own devices." Except that there's no (current, easy) way of excluding you from various public goods that are paid by taxes. Examples include national defense, public spaces like parks, public highways, fire protection (if you live in shared housing or simply close e…

In principle, I agree with you, but most of the things you list are relatively cheap. In the United States (I know Jacques isn't American), the majority of the Federal budget is devoted to the military, interest on the national debt, various forms of free/subsidized insurance for the old and poor, and various forms of income support for the poor. The public goods other than national defense you list are very cheap in…

> The US spends more on its military than the next ten countries combined, so there's a good chance it's possible to have effective national defense for an order of magnitude less than we currently pay

But national defense (or really, defense of any kind) is about more than just the ability to successfully repeal an attack; at certain scale, it's about ensuring that nobody even tries to lift a finger against you. And then there's the 'implied offensive' angle where others fear what you might do.

The security and strength provided by that military is a significant factor in the ability of the USA to create and retain its wealth. Limiting the size of military to purely defensive levels would also limit that ability, so in many ways it's as much an investment as roads and fire departments. It's hard to measure the ROI but the stakes are clearly very high.

Hope this doesn't feel cynical.

Re: Life as a Service

#77

Post by _pferreir_ »

flyinRyan wrote: post #70
phn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read anything at all about slavery? Compared to that, being a citizen with rights as well as obligations is a huge blessing.

Well, it depends on which slaves you're talking about. Not being a slave is always better than being one, but sometimes "slave" basically meant being in a lot of debt...

That's exactly what I meant. Unfortunately, slavery is much more than chains and forced labour.

Re: Life as a Service

#78

Post by phn »

_pferreir_ wrote: post #72
phn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read anything at all about slavery? Compared to that, being a citizen with rights as well as obligations is a huge blessing.

I have read about slavery of course, and I'm aware of what the word means. I obviously didn't meant "slave" in the traditional, historical sense. Actually, the OED defines "slave" as "One who is the property of, and entirely subject to, another person, whether by capture, purchase, or birth". That's quite a broad definition, isn't it? Yes, I know I am really fortunate by comparison with most of the world's population…

Yeah, I understand that. I actually think is important to find what bothers us despite our "blessings" and try to make it better, we'd be stuck in the past if we didn't.

I just found "slavery" a strong word, and that a little perspective on these matters is also very important.

Re: Life as a Service

#79

Post by praptak »

Zak wrote: post #47
praptak wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the money service - managing supply and providing guarantees for its value. Actually if you manage to exclude yourself from using this particular service you won't have to pay any taxes.

That's not entirely true. I'll confine my response to how things work in the US since that's where I live and it's what I know the most about. Attempting to use an alternate medium of exchange may result in legal problems. In particular, Federal law says: Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, inte…

Indeed, going barter will probably not let you avoid taxes. I thought of avoiding the use of money by totally withdrawing from the economic exchange.

Re: Life as a Service

#80

Post by adrianscott »

"I spent some time researching the emigration options. A lot of time actually. And I’ve found out that the place where I live is in spite of all of the above probably one of the best places on earth to be living at the moment. It’s shocking! Half the world or more of it would be more than happy just to trade with me, and they’d be absolutely right."

If you can earn a first-world nation without having to live there, something quite possible in tech, there are a number of countries where many folks can be quite happy and more free. And remember you don't have to just stay in one country, you can travel around a bit and sample countries also.

I made the move and it was the right decision to me, imho.

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