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Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

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Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#31

Post by nightski »

orliesaurus wrote: post #25

I appreciate the focus on older hardware and virtualization challenges in this thread, but I'm also interested in the broader implications of the Asahi work beyond just running Linux on used Macs. Getting a bespoke SoC supported in the mainline kernel and rewriting low‑level firmware in Rust could set a precedent for other ARM64 platforms with opaque boot chains. It might also encourage more laptop makers to ship mac…

I mean sure, but ARM SoC in Linux has been a thing for quite some time in the embedded space. This is hardly new.

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#32

Post by mort96 »

wara23arish wrote: post #22
intrasight wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: why would you care about battery in your daily driver? aren't you sitting or standing at a desk?

which begs the question why even get a laptop as a daily driver people do it all the time for gaming laptops etc when probably 99% of their usage is at the same desk

I have a desktop, but I could imagine a life with only a laptop. Sure, maybe 99% of my usage would be at one desk, but if I need that other 1%, I need a laptop. It's the desktop that's an optional nice-to-have. And not everyone can afford or wants to have two computers which are powerful enough to do what they need.

In reality, far more than 1% of my computer use happens away from the desk where my desktop is located. I'm guessing I'm not alone in that.

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#33

Post by mort96 »

rjdj377dhabsn wrote: post #17
mort96 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The battery drain in sleep mode is why Linux is relegated to a dual-boot option for use when necessary for me, rather than my daily driver. Battery drain when in use or idle seems perfectly acceptable, but I can't use a laptop which discharges itself overnight while the lid is closed. I'm sad that Asahi never implemented a proper sleep mode.

Why not just suspend to disk? My Asus laptop with 32 GB of RAM is 4 years old, but resumes from the encrypted swap partition in under 5 seconds, which is fast enough for me.

I don't think suspend to disk is properly supported in Asahi. I remember looking into it a couple of years ago and found that it wasn't a solution, and a quick Google search now indicates that it's still not implemented.

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#34

Post by LtdJorge »

nightski wrote: post #31
orliesaurus wrote: post #25

I appreciate the focus on older hardware and virtualization challenges in this thread, but I'm also interested in the broader implications of the Asahi work beyond just running Linux on used Macs. Getting a bespoke SoC supported in the mainline kernel and rewriting low‑level firmware in Rust could set a precedent for other ARM64 platforms with opaque boot chains. It might also encourage more laptop makers to ship mac…

I mean sure, but ARM SoC in Linux has been a thing for quite some time in the embedded space. This is hardly new.

That’s true, but the Apple chips are not built on the base Arm designs and don’t use Adreno, they also use more proprietary IP in the SoC.

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#35

Post by dangus »

mort96 wrote: post #5

I have a 2021 MacBook Pro with an M1 Pro. It's getting a bit old, so it would be nice to replace it with a new MacBook Pro in not too long. But honestly, losing Linux support would be pretty devastating. Docker and virtualization just isn't the same. There's lots of interesting stuff you can do with your hardware in Linux, there's for example Linux-specific software which puts the WiFi card in promiscuous mode and do…

My advice is if you’re truly a Linux user first, give up the idea that Mac hardware is the only best/acceptable hardware. Break the cycle and don’t just buy Apple because their hardware is 10% better than competitors.

The market really isn’t limited to “buying a windows laptop and putting Linux onto it” anymore.

Lots of OEMs support Linux as a first-class citizen.

For me personally I’m enjoying my Framework laptop a lot. Is it the same kind of hardware polish as a Mac? No, of course not. But owning a Framework is like owning an Apple in the sense that the community has fully integrated Framework systems into the ecosystem.

One command installs Framework fan profiles into Bazzite Linux. One command inside Linux updates UEFI and device firmware, try doing that with Windows!

Is the battery like half as good as a MacBook Pro? Yeah. It sucks a little bit. But also, owning/carrying around a $50 portable battery isn’t such a bad thing, and the weight difference is a wash since the 13” Framework is lighter than the 14” MacBook Pro.

And on the plus side, I paid a less than MacBook Air money for a system with 2TB of storage and 32GB of RAM (DIY previous AMD generation model), fully upgradable, fully repairable, with customizable I/O.

A new battery is DIY, $60, not $250 with a wait for service. Replacing a broken screen is DIY $200, not $700 and a visit to the Apple service depot.

One day, I’m sure framework will be selling an ARM mainboard with similar battery life compared to a Mac, and when that day comes I don’t even have to buy a whole new system to get one.

And on top of all that, it’s still a nice laptop that feels premium even though it’s assembled DIY. I’d say the keyboard is better than a Mac keyboard (though the trackpad isn’t).

But also, there are other OEMs where running Linux is a joy and a breeze, along with being fully supported and even sold preinstalled. System76, Lenovo, Dell, and HP all have Linux-supported configurations.

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#36

Post by simjnd »

mort96 wrote: post #29
simjnd wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not. You mentioned Docker and virtualisation and this tool has addressed most of my pain points with those, that's it.

Sounds like it doesn't address my pain points then...

Indeed, I misunderstood "Docker and virtualization isn't the same" as "Docker and virtualization on Mac is not as good as on Linux". Now I understand you meant "Docker and virtualizating Linux isn't the same as bare metal Linux".

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#37

Post by achairapart »

Twenty years ago people went to great lenghts to run the best OS available at that time on cheap commodity x86 hardware with hackintoshes. Fast forward to today, similar efforts are made to run linux on the best hardware available. It's funny how things turn around.

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#38

Post by Lerc »

bestouff wrote: post #10
mort96 wrote: post #5

I have a 2021 MacBook Pro with an M1 Pro. It's getting a bit old, so it would be nice to replace it with a new MacBook Pro in not too long. But honestly, losing Linux support would be pretty devastating. Docker and virtualization just isn't the same. There's lots of interesting stuff you can do with your hardware in Linux, there's for example Linux-specific software which puts the WiFi card in promiscuous mode and do…

I used to have the same one, with Asahi. There were some problems which were never fixed (battery drain in sleep mode, no working Thunderbolt ...). Now job will give me a brand new one (I guess M4 or M5), I don't know how I'll do to run Linux on this. Either it'll be a VM or I'll use my own thinkpad. So sad.

How Linux-like can you make a Mac act without changing OS now? It's been a few years since I used a Mac regularly, but even back then you could go a fair way towards making it seem nice enough to use.

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#39

Post by mort96 »

simjnd wrote: post #36
mort96 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it doesn't address my pain points then...

Indeed, I misunderstood "Docker and virtualization isn't the same" as "Docker and virtualization on Mac is not as good as on Linux". Now I understand you meant "Docker and virtualizating Linux isn't the same as bare metal Linux".

Oh, I get the misunderstanding now. Yeah I meant that Docker and virtualization isn't the same as bare-metal Linux. Sorry for being a bit unclear

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#40

Post by notepad0x90 »

dangus wrote: post #35
mort96 wrote: post #5

I have a 2021 MacBook Pro with an M1 Pro. It's getting a bit old, so it would be nice to replace it with a new MacBook Pro in not too long. But honestly, losing Linux support would be pretty devastating. Docker and virtualization just isn't the same. There's lots of interesting stuff you can do with your hardware in Linux, there's for example Linux-specific software which puts the WiFi card in promiscuous mode and do…

My advice is if you’re truly a Linux user first, give up the idea that Mac hardware is the only best/acceptable hardware. Break the cycle and don’t just buy Apple because their hardware is 10% better than competitors. The market really isn’t limited to “buying a windows laptop and putting Linux onto it” anymore. Lots of OEMs support Linux as a first-class citizen. For me personally I’m enjoying my Framework laptop a…

I don't think any other competitor makes hardware of a similar class in terms of quality.

Framework is great, but it doesn't even come close in terms of quality. Specs are one thing, how the product looks, feels, attention to detail, and most importantly: long term viability! even if you take away everything else, macbooks are though. I've used a couple for over a decade with no hardware repair (except when I broke a screen). Most mac users have similar experiences, so it's not survivor's bias.

If all you care about is specs or open hardware, obviously Apple hardware is not for you.

I don't want framework or system76 to move to ARM, a lot of people like me still _need_ x86 hardware.

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