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Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

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Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#21

Post by mort96 »

simjnd wrote: post #19
mort96 wrote: post #5

I have a 2021 MacBook Pro with an M1 Pro. It's getting a bit old, so it would be nice to replace it with a new MacBook Pro in not too long. But honestly, losing Linux support would be pretty devastating. Docker and virtualization just isn't the same. There's lots of interesting stuff you can do with your hardware in Linux, there's for example Linux-specific software which puts the WiFi card in promiscuous mode and do…

On macOS you can use OrbStack [1] for a much better experience working with Docker on Mac, as well as quickly spinning up headless Linux VMs (WSL on Mac kind of thing). The free tier will probably be rug-pulled someday, but I've been using it for a couple of years and it makes my life a lot easier when I'm on macOS. [1]: https://orbstack.dev/

And you're saying that this can set my WiFi card in promiscuous mode as if I was running Linux bare metal?

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#22

Post by wara23arish »

intrasight wrote: post #16
mort96 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The battery drain in sleep mode is why Linux is relegated to a dual-boot option for use when necessary for me, rather than my daily driver. Battery drain when in use or idle seems perfectly acceptable, but I can't use a laptop which discharges itself overnight while the lid is closed. I'm sad that Asahi never implemented a proper sleep mode.

Honest question: why would you care about battery in your daily driver? aren't you sitting or standing at a desk?

which begs the question why even get a laptop as a daily driver

people do it all the time for gaming laptops etc when probably 99% of their usage is at the same desk

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#23

Post by iknowstuff »

wara23arish wrote: post #22
intrasight wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: why would you care about battery in your daily driver? aren't you sitting or standing at a desk?

which begs the question why even get a laptop as a daily driver people do it all the time for gaming laptops etc when probably 99% of their usage is at the same desk

I would go nuts if I was confined to working from one spot. Versatility and mobility are too important to give up. And there’s no tradeoff with apple silicon.

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#24

Post by simjnd »

mort96 wrote: post #21
simjnd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On macOS you can use OrbStack [1] for a much better experience working with Docker on Mac, as well as quickly spinning up headless Linux VMs (WSL on Mac kind of thing). The free tier will probably be rug-pulled someday, but I've been using it for a couple of years and it makes my life a lot easier when I'm on macOS. [1]: https://orbstack.dev/

And you're saying that this can set my WiFi card in promiscuous mode as if I was running Linux bare metal?

I'm not.

You mentioned Docker and virtualisation and this tool has addressed most of my pain points with those, that's it.

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#25

Post by orliesaurus »

I appreciate the focus on older hardware and virtualization challenges in this thread, but I'm also interested in the broader implications of the Asahi work beyond just running Linux on used Macs. Getting a bespoke SoC supported in the mainline kernel and rewriting low‑level firmware in Rust could set a precedent for other ARM64 platforms with opaque boot chains.

It might also encourage more laptop makers to ship machines with first‑class Linux support so people aren't forced to pick between hardware they like and the OS they want. And for folks who don't need a Mac specifically, the growing ecosystem of non‑Apple ARM laptops could offer a smoother path than shoe‑horning Linux onto proprietary silicon.

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#26

Post by transpute »

einsteinx2 wrote: post #12
ForHackernews wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're witnessing the end of the IBM PC-compatible era, and maybe more ominously of general-purpose personal computing. The future looks like custom chipsets with signed bootloaders that only run signed OEM applications. You will not have root on any of the devices you nominally own.

The tide does seem to be turning that way, though I do think it will be possible to buy general purpose computers for the foreseeable future. Also as a minor counter point, the only reason Asahi is even possible is that Apple explicitly designed in support for booting other operating systems into the M-series chips. They certainly could have locked them down just like they did the iPhone and iPad, but they didn't. Th…

> Apple explicitly designed in support for booting other operating systems into the M-series chips

Thank Xeno, who has since been creating open-source training on low-level firmware security at https://p.ost2.fyi, a new iteration of open training material published ~15 years ago at https://opensecuritytraining.info before joining Apple.

https://archive.fosdem.org/2022/schedule/speaker/xeno_kovah/

  his final project was leading the M1 SecureBoot architecture - being directly responsible for designing a system that could provide iOS-level security, while still allowing customer choice to trust arbitrary non-Apple code such as Linux bootloaders.

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#27

Post by cmurf »

rjdj377dhabsn wrote: post #17
mort96 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The battery drain in sleep mode is why Linux is relegated to a dual-boot option for use when necessary for me, rather than my daily driver. Battery drain when in use or idle seems perfectly acceptable, but I can't use a laptop which discharges itself overnight while the lid is closed. I'm sad that Asahi never implemented a proper sleep mode.

Why not just suspend to disk? My Asus laptop with 32 GB of RAM is 4 years old, but resumes from the encrypted swap partition in under 5 seconds, which is fast enough for me.

If UEFI Secure Boot is enabled, Fedora kernels detect this and lockdown. And hibernation is then disabled. The reason is lack of an autheticated hibernation image. This work has had several proposals but still isn't implemented.

I'm not sure of the status on other distro kernels but allowing it would be a significant bypass of Secure Boot's purpose.

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#28

Post by Forgeties79 »

mort96 wrote: post #5

I have a 2021 MacBook Pro with an M1 Pro. It's getting a bit old, so it would be nice to replace it with a new MacBook Pro in not too long. But honestly, losing Linux support would be pretty devastating. Docker and virtualization just isn't the same. There's lots of interesting stuff you can do with your hardware in Linux, there's for example Linux-specific software which puts the WiFi card in promiscuous mode and do…

I get this feeling but frankly I feel more comfortable running Linux on 2+ year old hardware than brand new hardware having experienced both now, if for no other reason than all the questions you have have probably been asked and answered.

And yeah each iteration of the M chip has gotten better, but even a standard M1 is a very capable chip these days.

My work laptop is a 2021 MBpro. M1, 16gb ram, nothing special. Still very capable machine for video editing. One of my department livestream machines is an M4 Mac mini, 16gb ram as well. I regularly juggle between the two and the only two big things I notice are 1) multi screen support (M1 can only push to one external which is annoying), and 2) noticeably better but not wildly improved render times (admittedly this difference is a bit more stark when you’re doing heavy lifts like resolve fusion comps and intense coloring/masking). On any given day they are basically the same machine to me.

Suffice to say if you’re running on an M3 right now and are feeling the need for an M5, unless you’re doing really bleeding edge heavy duty work, I just don’t think there’s that much you’re missing out on. So Linux on an M3 to me is great.

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#29

Post by mort96 »

simjnd wrote: post #24
mort96 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you're saying that this can set my WiFi card in promiscuous mode as if I was running Linux bare metal?

I'm not. You mentioned Docker and virtualisation and this tool has addressed most of my pain points with those, that's it.

Sounds like it doesn't address my pain points then...

Re: Asahi Linux Still Working on Apple M3 Support, M1n1 Bootloader Going Rust

#30

Post by prmph »

mort96 wrote: post #11
throw728349 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Since they didn't mention a computer line but rather a CPU, I assume they used "base M1" to mean the CPU called "M1" as opposed to the "M1 Pro" or "M1 Max" or "M1 Ultra". I don't think they were referring to "base M1 MacBook Pro" or "base M1 MacBook Air" or "base M1 Mac Mini". And they're right, the "base M1" (as in not the Pro, Max or Ultra) is a very capable chip.

Even the base model M1 is still a very capable machine for a lot of tasks. The HN bubble strikes again
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