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When is it better to think without words?

henrikkarlsson.xyz

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Re: When is it better to think without words?

#81

Post by blueflow »

fjfaase wrote: post #75

In the family of my maternal grandfather there are many individuals who are much better at science but have difficulty with language (often in combination with dyslexia) in school. I have some evidence that those individuals (myself included) have a significant higher non-verbal IQ (20 to 30 points) than verbal IQ as categorized by the WISC-V intelligence tests. I often struggle to express my ideas with words. When I…

IQ is the measurement, not the real thing, so don't focus too much on it.

The vocabulary is limited by what the recipients will understand, while your thoughts are not. My favourite example: Complex thoughts can have many forms of negative results, but there isn't widespread vocabulary other than "i don't know" to express it.

Re: When is it better to think without words?

#82

Post by WillAdams »

Yeah, after a lot of thinking and visualization and brain-storming, a lot of which was the sort of formless void of the wordless prayers of St. John of the Cross and what I would reach for in Buddhist meditation (but never managed to hold on to for long if I even reached it --- given that I was regularly hit with a bamboo can before being told to go sweep up in the bookbinding shop, probably not....) I've managed to make a bit of progress on a project to the point of an actual concept realized in 3D in my head --- the problem has been that getting from mental image to 3D model to files which will can actually be cut on a CNC has been nightmarish --- the 3D CAM tools which I can afford either won't use the tooling which I wish to use in the way I need to use it, or one which did converted a 1" x 1" x 2" test section into a ~140MB file after churning for ~18 minutes (I'll need for this to exist in multiples and to be as much as 48 inches long).

Since then, I've been working on a personal project to cut this, but I've been running into issues with the complexity of CSG objects.... tried using linear/rotate_extrude but they rotate the 2D tool representation as if it were being used w/ a 5-axis CNC, but most people (incl. me) use a 3-axis....

Re: When is it better to think without words?

#83

Post by larrry »

liqilin1567 wrote: post #68
larrry wrote: post #14

When making visual art, I don’t think in words. Shapes, colors, shading, perspective together turn into a final drawing; at no point do I translate this to words. I’m not sure what trying to draw by thinking in words would even look like. Identifying and searching for morel mushrooms in the woods also feels largely nonverbal (although near a dying elm in late spring after a rain captures an essence of the idea, and t…

Is it like this?: It's one of those things you can't really describe - you just feel it

Yes, definitely. Despite struggling to describe the process, I would hope the end results still demonstrate the process can be rigorous even without words (is the drawing any good, did I find morels this season, does the code work as required)

Re: When is it better to think without words?

#84

Post by mewpmewp2 »

yapyap wrote: post #71
apricot13 wrote: post #18

This is one of those things that you don't really tend to think about (pun not intended!) until you experience a change in your thinking or meet someone who thinks like you do! > If we can avoid the compression step, and do the manipulations directly in the high-dimensional, non-linguistic, conceptual space, we can move much faster With my neurodivergent brain I've always conducted my thoughts in an "uncompressed for…

I get what you’re saying, in my own way. But what I do not get is how you would convey these thoughts to someone else that thinks the same way as you, seeing as these thoughts don’t neccesarily seem to be contained to words or sentences.

I'm curious about some specific examples. Like can you explain a thought that came to you without words and then try to explain how you tried to explain it.

I feel like my thoughts are entirely monologue reasoning based kind of.

Re: When is it better to think without words?

#85

Post by quacked »

lll-o-lll wrote: post #48
quacked wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just learned that term today, but I guess so. I don't know how I generate words, they're just there. I type at about 120 wpm and speak very quickly as well, but as it's coming out I'm just flashing through different images in my head, often partial images from my own memory, and the words come out without paying attention to them, like out of a lower layer of consciousness. I write a lot of 300+ word messages at wo…

I first heard about “thinking in pictures” from Dr Temple Grandin, who is autistic and associates it with autism. Anyway, it’s also how she thinks and appears to be a super power when it comes to designing feed lots. https://www.grandin.com/inc/visual.thinking.html I imagine you also struggled with algebra? Being a non-visual abstraction.

Thanks for the link!

Actually, I did struggle with algebra, and also calculus and differential equations. As with most on this site, I fell into an "advanced"/"gifted" cohort, but I was always down at the bottom of the class.

I excelled (relative to my peers, not to truly gifted people) at linear algebra, statistics, systems engineering, and combinatorics.

Re: When is it better to think without words?

#87

Post by Xemplolo »

apricot13 wrote: post #18

This is one of those things that you don't really tend to think about (pun not intended!) until you experience a change in your thinking or meet someone who thinks like you do! > If we can avoid the compression step, and do the manipulations directly in the high-dimensional, non-linguistic, conceptual space, we can move much faster With my neurodivergent brain I've always conducted my thoughts in an "uncompressed for…

I don't think its the same thing as whats described in the article.

When i talk with someone very aligned with my thinking and knowledge (fellow it collegues/friends with simiiliar skill level) we do not a lot of words to be aligned and convey complex thoughts.

We reference and use words which we both know, we read and reference similiar news stories etc.

But the way they describe it with colors, vibrations etc. is probably somethig you can't just convey.

Re: When is it better to think without words?

#88

Post by KolibriFly »

apricot13 wrote: post #18

This is one of those things that you don't really tend to think about (pun not intended!) until you experience a change in your thinking or meet someone who thinks like you do! > If we can avoid the compression step, and do the manipulations directly in the high-dimensional, non-linguistic, conceptual space, we can move much faster With my neurodivergent brain I've always conducted my thoughts in an "uncompressed for…

Finding someone who thinks like you can feel like unlocking a second processor

Re: When is it better to think without words?

#89

Post by KolibriFly »

quacked wrote: post #12

I don't have an "inner monologue" and don't think in words, only in images, but I've never experienced what this author is describing in terms of "nonsense words" or "hand vibrations". I was with some friends that were in a band together, and we got thinking about this topic, and ended up arranging ourselves from least verbal to most verbal. I was on one end, where all of my thoughts appear as emotions or images; on…

Usually skimming fast with bursts of visualization, but I have to force myself into that slower, word-by-word mode for dense material

Re: When is it better to think without words?

#90

Post by _ink_ »

godelski wrote: post #49
agentcoops wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m aphantasic with no mental imagery at all so my inner experience could not be more different: it’s strange to explain, but I experience “unvocalized” language, which means the words are sort of just there without “hearing” them in my head—-I don’t have inner sound at all either and so the words don’t have an accent, for example. My thought moves at a speed much faster than speaking and I can read fast with high co…

What do you see when you close your eyes? Just light and colors? What about when you dream? I ask because there's done research suggesting visual hallucinations while sleeping helps maintain the visual cortex's proficiency. IIRC it was just contingent on visual stimuli. Sometimes as I fall asleep I see a very bright white light, so something like that can count. If you don't remember your dreams it might be interesti…

If I close my eyes I see the inner of my eye lids. Interestingly very intense visual stimuli can trigger mental images for me. I remember that when I closed my eyes after endless hours of Counterstrike, I would still see the game, tho I couldn't control what I see. Same goes for porn. Sometimes I remember my dreams, which are visual, but I don't think that I experience any other sense while dreaming. As kid I had lucid dreams, which I was stunned of, because of the amount of details I remembered. I just looked at faces of people I knew. Lucid dreaming is still something which I want to try to train.
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