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NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

cnn.com

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Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#831

Post by kragen »

allenrb wrote: post #373

There is just so much wrong with this from start to finish. Here are a few things, by no means inclusive: 1. We’ve already beaten China to the moon by 56 years, 3 months, and some change. And counting. 2. Nothing based around SLS is remotely serious. The cost and timeline of doing anything with it are unreasonable. It is an absolute dead-end. The SpaceX Super Heavy has been more capable arguably as early as the secon…

China beat "us" to movable type, if by "us" we mean Americans, by about 700 years. Me personally, I've neither landed on the moon nor made a letterpress print.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#832

Post by nicoburns »

mlrtime wrote: post #821
nicoburns wrote: post #805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be born a winner, to be taught you’re a winner… how can that be healthy? The entire mindset of separating the world into "winners" and "losers" in the first place seems unhealthy to me.

On a specific topic where the entire point is a race? The point of a race is to win. Have you worked for a company where they never win at anything? Been in meetings where people want to hear about 'wins'? Maybe you don't, but I do. I like to work for a winning team.

That there is a competitive race is part of the assumption. That there is value in winning this race at the expense of other competitors is an assumption. That there will always be "losers" and we can't create a scenario where "everyone is a winner" is an assumption.

An alternative perspective on both space races, companies and life in general would be a collaborative one. I like to work on a productive, effective, successful teams, but I don't view that in terms of "winning" and "losing".

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#833

Post by mortarion »

allenrb wrote: post #373

There is just so much wrong with this from start to finish. Here are a few things, by no means inclusive: 1. We’ve already beaten China to the moon by 56 years, 3 months, and some change. And counting. 2. Nothing based around SLS is remotely serious. The cost and timeline of doing anything with it are unreasonable. It is an absolute dead-end. The SpaceX Super Heavy has been more capable arguably as early as the secon…

Refueling the HLS in orbit, before it sets off to the moon requires at least 10 launches, but likely closer to 20, and neither Super Heavy or any future Starship tanker will be rapidly reusable that much is clear by now. For this system to work, SpaceX will need to build many more launch pads and the refueling sequence alone will take months due to boil off.

It's a dumb system invented due to the whims of a madman who should listen to his engineers instead of trying to cosplay as a rocket scientist.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#834

Post by m4rtink »

anigbrowl wrote: post #755
skeeter2020 wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Apple didn't recreate the same mobile handset as Motorola or anybody else. There is very little value or scientific benefit in going back to the moon within the parameters of this mission; it's literally "do the same thing again".

Incredible lack of imagination. If we went back to the moon on the regular we could by now have high resolution cameras permanently installed there pointing back at Earth, sending video in real time. but we have satellites for that High resolution photographs of the entire earth (as opposed to tiny pieces of it) would have a massive positive emotional effect on people. The Earthrise photo's enduring popularity is pro…

There a satellite that does that: https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/

Well, when US is not running out of money.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#835

Post by m4rtink »

mrheosuper wrote: post #668
skeeter2020 wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Apple didn't recreate the same mobile handset as Motorola or anybody else. There is very little value or scientific benefit in going back to the moon within the parameters of this mission; it's literally "do the same thing again".

What do you mean "the same thing"? Different rocket, different suits, and different budget. If we want to put people on Mars, we must prove we can put people on Moon, again.

Mars has actually quite different environment to the Moon if you wan't to do surface testing: no atmosphere, different gravity, abrasive dust, different day and year length, different solar constant, etc.

For spaxe infrastructure however - sure, stuff mined and manufactured on the Moon can definitely help any planetary missions.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#836

Post by exasperaited »

allenrb wrote: post #373

There is just so much wrong with this from start to finish. Here are a few things, by no means inclusive: 1. We’ve already beaten China to the moon by 56 years, 3 months, and some change. And counting. 2. Nothing based around SLS is remotely serious. The cost and timeline of doing anything with it are unreasonable. It is an absolute dead-end. The SpaceX Super Heavy has been more capable arguably as early as the secon…

But also

5. The owner of SpaceX threatens to cancel projects when he gets into social media spats with the president he thought he'd bought, or his NASA chief

I don't understand why anyone tolerates a man like Musk having material control over state projects.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#837

Post by mortarion »

qwerpy wrote: post #419
ActorNightly wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Space X isn't much better. Its still Musks company.

So, the company gets things done but the CEO is unpopular with certain crowds. Seems better than Boeing, which is bad at getting things done. At least their CEO is inoffensive, and that’s what is important?

They haven't gotten anything done in regards to HLS. They can build their HLS and even launch it into orbit next year but then what?

HLS requires on-orbit refueling. Anything from 10 to 20 refueling launches will be required. Did you think it required one refueling launch? The SH+SS stack will never be reusable or reliable enough to accomplish the refueling operation in time and on budget.

This means one moon mission will require the use of 10 launch pads and probably 20 complete stacks to even be feasible, because reuse will not help one iota.

Their upper stage reuse will never pan out. Sure they will catch a few, then they will remove the engines and stick the rest in a shredder for scraps to be melted down and recycled.

Elon's HLS is completely detached from reality. I won't even call it a SpaceX system because it's unlikely anyone but Elon came up with it.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#838

Post by Cosi1125 »

rayiner wrote: post #587
Waterluvian wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: 1. I think the America of Theseus mindset is a bit troubling. A lot of people like to identify with achievements that they played no role in. Based on zero expertise whatsoever, I have a sense that this is a bit self defeating. To be born a winner, to be taught you’re a winner… how can that be healthy? Today’s America scores zero points for its accomplishments of the past. But I think one way it can be a good thi…

My first job out of law school was at a 176 year old law firm. New lawyers were socialized to identify with the past achievements of the firm, like helping J.P. Morgan build the railroads. There was a good reason for that: it socializes people to adhere to a culture and practices that have proven to be effective. You’re right that, if overdone, it can lead to complacency. But if you treat every generation as a blank…

It's not a dichotomy. Stand on the shoulders of giants, sure, but don't pretend you're one of them.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#839

Post by artursapek »

dotancohen wrote: post #810
allenrb wrote: post #373

There is just so much wrong with this from start to finish. Here are a few things, by no means inclusive: 1. We’ve already beaten China to the moon by 56 years, 3 months, and some change. And counting. 2. Nothing based around SLS is remotely serious. The cost and timeline of doing anything with it are unreasonable. It is an absolute dead-end. The SpaceX Super Heavy has been more capable arguably as early as the secon…

> Land on the moon when we can accomplish something there, not just to prove we haven’t lost our mojo since Apollo. I have been a die hard fan of space exploration since the first Columbia flight. It is one of my first memories. I dream of the day when the moon is populated, like the ISS. I am the largest proponent of space exploration you'll meet, if only just for the sense of exploration disregarding all other bene…

I agree. DEI hiring is so offensive, to both white people and “diverse” people. The former because it punishes them for something outside of their control, and the latter because it rewards them and diminishes the hard work that they had to do if they’re actually qualified. DEI is such a low IQ policy.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#840

Post by mortarion »

jordanb wrote: post #57
loourr wrote: post #20

Artemis is a joke. You can tell this is politically motivated by their stance on SLS. If they were serious they would give Spacex the SLS contract for being years and years behind schedule.

Is starship on schedule?

No, and even if the first HLS lander was built and launched tomorrow, it still needs to be filled up in orbit a dozen times, something that has never been done before and SpaceX doesn't have the capability for and won't have for another decade.
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