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French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

bbc.com

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Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#121

Post by pyrale »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #15
aaplok wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not political play. This is FUD spread by his political supporters. The "exécution provisoire" is a measure that was introduced when his own party was in power, to make sure that terrorists were jailed immediately. He happened to be condemned for breaching the same law (association de malfaiteurs) that is used against terrorists. I once read a comment by a lawyer that he was amazed by the number of politicians…

Political aspects of the justice system are never acknowledged for obvious reasons but it does not mean they don't exist. I cannot be sure of what is happening (hence "seems") but neither can you, especially regarding decisions that are discretionary. At least here there is a guilty verdict even if not final. In France people can be jailed for years without a trial...

> Political aspects of the justice system are never acknowledged for obvious reasons but it does not mean they don't exist.

Sure, but also, he did the crime. There can not really be any doubt for the people who followed the trial, and the judges have shown extreme caution, rejecting charges when there was the slightest doubt.

The political opinion or lack thereof of judges is irrelevant.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#122

Post by guerrilla »

tauwauwau wrote: post #110
yard2010 wrote: post #82

[flagged]

Law doesn't seek to punish but to rehabilitate. Act of taking freedom away from the criminal is violent enough. Treating them badly is just a sign of unfair/poor society that cannot maintain (afford to keep) it's promise to be civil to all citizens.

Your confounding how things should be with how they are. These are two distinct philosophies, only one of which is relevant in most of the real world, unfortunately.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#123

Post by Beretta_Vexee »

yard2010 wrote: post #82

[flagged]

He is in the VIP wing of La Santé prison. The part visible from Boulevard Arago is an overcrowded high-security wing, and it is not uncommon to hear screams and shouts in the evening when passing by.

Two wings, two different moods, one prison.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#124

Post by lordnacho »

10729287 wrote: post #99
jakub_g wrote: post #48

In some ways, this reminds me of Bernard Tapie, called "a man with 1001 lives". It's a really interesting story from 1980s/90s of a self-made-businessman, turned politician, getting to the very top, doing deals with African leaders, becoming minister, having his football club (Marseille) win the European Champions League; which however was a turning point that started his downfall, as they bought a domestic game just…

Fun fact, what is today perceived as a historical and intense rivalry between the Paris and Marseille football teams was actually completely made up and orchestrated by Bernard Tapie and the TV channel Canal+ (then recent owner of PSG) in the 1990s.

Great video about the lack of local rivalries in French football:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DadkD_06mM

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#125

Post by falcor84 »

yard2010 wrote: post #98
falcor84 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading up about Israeli politics, it seems that this might be a "be careful what you wish for" situation. They had previously put in prison both a prime minister and a president, and the disastrous governance there over the last decade and a half appears to be in large motivated by Netanyahu's almost certain knowledge that he'll go to prison if and when he loses his grip on the reins. The documentary The Bibi Files…

I'm not into politics and I'm far from an expert but this has more to it. Netanyahu doesn't just wait until he loses his grip on the rein, he's making the changes to the system (i.e ruin the whole country for everyone) so he won't count as a criminal when this is all over. No offense but the french people should thank god their criminal in control didn't go all the way through turning the country into a shit show in…

Yes, exactly - I was hoping to allude to that, but apparently wasn't clear in my writing. It seems to me that he has arrived at a "L'État, c'est moi" mentality, doing everything in his power (and consolidating as much additional power as possible) to stay out of prison, even (as you said) at the cost of destroying the country around him and the rest of the middle east, intentionally aggravating all the conflicts in the area, to be able to continuously yell out about crises that (in the mind of those who support him) necessitate his staying in power.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#126

Post by wiether »

_ache_ wrote: post #101
Beretta_Vexee wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a nickname. It's simply because the prison is located on Rue de la Santé (Health Street). Rue de la Santé was named that way because there was a hospital there from the 17th to the 19th century.

I hesitated to call it a nickname, as the name is "Paris-La Santé". But got covered by Wikipédia " https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_de_la_Sant%C3%A9 ", so I did called it a nickname too. I'm pretty sure it can be called a "Métonymie de lieu" but I just didn't want to insist about that, it feels a little pedantic.

> it feels a little pedantic

Typical French conversation then!

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#127

Post by genezeta »

_ache_ wrote: post #73
kzrdude wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should say convicted instead of condemned. It's not really wrong, but condemned has many other connotations, which makes it less clear. It's not the first time he's convicted in court overall, but it's the first time for this charge.

Please, can you explains the difference between "convicted" and "condemned"? Convicted is about the fact of been a criminal and condemned about the fact that you have a condamnation/conviction/sentence?

Apparently, in English, convicted means that someone has been officially declared guilty of some crime. After being convicted comes being sentenced, which is when the punishment is set.

On the other hand, condemned is specifically about being sentenced to death -or sometimes life in prison or some similarly hard punishment-. Which is also why a building is said to be condemned when it is set to be demolished.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#128

Post by gnfargbl »

thrance wrote: post #95
yard2010 wrote: post #82

[flagged]

[flagged]

Article 3 ECHR should prevent the prison authorities from putting any prisoner in a position where they know he's going to "get roughed up". You and I both want that right for ourselves, so surely we should also extend it to Sarzoky?

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#129

Post by liendolucas »

msh wrote: post #120
liendolucas wrote: post #116

Why when a high profile politic is sentenced it goes to a 5 star suite while the rest of mortals are thrown to a hole? It seems that when you cross a certain invisible threshold "justice" applies just a bit differently. Same in Argentina with corrupt and ex-robber Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner.

Does he have better conditions than any other French persons convicted of a similar crime?

I don't know, but what I do know that "jail" has a very different meaning for me.

In Argentina the lives of people of an entire country have been ruined because of the last 20 years of robbery from the state arcs.

Yet every disgusting politician is out there or has served a laughable sentence. And what do you get in turn after ripping off a country? A home prision benefit.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#130

Post by sebstefan »

looobay wrote: post #26
qq66 wrote: post #23

So is this a criminal president receiving justice, or a politically motivated prosecution?

He received money from Libya for his presidential campaign [0], he's just a criminal ex-president... [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_financing_in_the_2007_F...

Not just from Libya, he met & received money from the brother in law of the Libyan dictator Muhamar Kadhaffi

The brother in law personally orchestrated the crashe of a civilian airliner, killing 170 passengers

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