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French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

bbc.com

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Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#61

Post by falcor84 »

boltzmann-brain wrote: post #12

oh I wish the American people were this brave

Reading up about Israeli politics, it seems that this might be a "be careful what you wish for" situation. They had previously put in prison both a prime minister and a president, and the disastrous governance there over the last decade and a half appears to be in large motivated by Netanyahu's almost certain knowledge that he'll go to prison if and when he loses his grip on the reins.

The documentary The Bibi Files was a particularly interesting examination of the allegations against him and his almost shrugging response to them [0]. And going back to America, a week ago Trump asked the Israeli president to preemptively pardon Netanyahu during his speech at their parliament [1], which I find to be concerning on all possible levels.

[0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt33338697/

[1] https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/trump-urges-israel...

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#62

Post by julienfr112 »

_ache_ wrote: post #51
catwell wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's way more complicated than this. First, this is mostly about things that happened before his election. The tribunal ruled he did not personally benefit, and he did not directly solicit money to finance his campaign either. However, some of his closest allies (who would become his ministers later) did the latter. The tribunal could not find any direct proof he was involved but ruled there were enough "converging i…

To be fair, the probability that the short explanation "He received money from Libya for his presidential campaign" is actually the truth is very high. There is no formal proofs, but as you say, (the judges deliberated that) there is enough "converging indications" to support the idea that the short explanation is true.

If the justice system doesn’t know exactly why it’s putting Sarkozy in prison, he does...

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#63

Post by ikekkdcjkfke »

boltzmann-brain wrote: post #12

oh I wish the American people were this brave

The first trump campaign was fueled by government and banks not being held accountable, ex. after the financial crisis and bailouts of banks. Though trump kind of piggy backed on those sentiments along with the tea party/koch brothers backing. Just goes to show you need to apply justice blindly and harshaly, or else you will trigger peoples strong and inate sense of injustice and burn it all down

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#64

Post by MaxL93 »

_ache_ wrote: post #51
catwell wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's way more complicated than this. First, this is mostly about things that happened before his election. The tribunal ruled he did not personally benefit, and he did not directly solicit money to finance his campaign either. However, some of his closest allies (who would become his ministers later) did the latter. The tribunal could not find any direct proof he was involved but ruled there were enough "converging i…

To be fair, the probability that the short explanation "He received money from Libya for his presidential campaign" is actually the truth is very high. There is no formal proofs, but as you say, (the judges deliberated that) there is enough "converging indications" to support the idea that the short explanation is true.

I'm sure the court could have gotten him on other charges, but they went with the absolutely 100% safe one rather than the other 99% safe ones.

Sarkozy and all of his billionaire media allies are already trying their hardest to undermine the credibility of the justice system at every turn with extremely dangerous rhetoric; I dread to imagine what this would have been like had they gone with ever-so-slightly-less-safe charges

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#65

Post by motorest »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #31
qq66 wrote: post #23

So is this a criminal president receiving justice, or a politically motivated prosecution?

Difficult to say. Even if indeed guilty, things like jailing him "provisionally" despite his appeal are discretionary decisions of the court so also open to all interpretations despite the very black and white comments here...

> Even if indeed guilty, things like jailing him "provisionally" despite his appeal are discretionary decisions of the court so also open to all interpretations depiste the very black and white comments here...

I read it the other way around. You're arguing for preferencial treatment on the ground that any inconvenience could be misconstrued as politically motivated.

In the meantime you're seeing a case involving organized crime, lieutenants caught red-handed, and charges extended to the leader of the criminal enterprise. You're not seeing any doubt being raised on the charges, only on whether the politician could have political opponents.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#67

Post by csomar »

rapsey wrote: post #2

So he used money from Libya to get elected and then later he bombed them?

More like bombed Gaddafi and guaranteed his downfall than bombed "Libya". It is probably a bit more complicated than that, though. The U.S./NATO were also involved and there is a lot of money there.

He probably thought he could get away with it. But make no mistake this is a political play and everyone involved is as dirty as the Paris Seine.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#68

Post by oezi »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #13
littlestymaar wrote: post #8

For context, it's not even the first time he's condemned, but this time the crime was sever enough so he couldn't avoid prison. He delayed the case enough (almost 13 years) so that he's now more than 70 though and I doubt he stays to long in prison because of his age. But it's nice to see that he couldn't run away from justice forever and is finally in jail.

He should not be in jail now. His case is going to appeal but the court decided to still jail him now "provisionally" (exécution provisoire), which sounds like a political play. Coincidentally, the same is happening to Le Pen with respect to the decision to ban her from elections... As for "delaying" the case, this is just the French court system for you. Everything takes years and years.

I think speeding up trials and the judiciary in general would be a great benefit for many western democracies.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#70

Post by motorest »

lucasRW wrote: post #42
qq66 wrote: post #23

So is this a criminal president receiving justice, or a politically motivated prosecution?

A bit of both, there's no doubt he's more than guilty. But it is also clear that judges (who are notable left-leaning, if not far-left) are much more efficient at prosecuting right-wing figures (Fillon, for 0 reason this time).

> But it is also clear that judges (who are notable left-leaning, if not far-left) are much more efficient at prosecuting right-wing figures (Fillon, for 0 reason this time).

This blend of comments strike me as odd. Are you actually complaining that a judicial system is too efficient at catching corruption at high levels? Is this bad? What point are you trying to make, exactly?

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