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NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

cnn.com

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Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#651

Post by hopelite »

Yeul wrote: post #624
themgt wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America cannot possibly win the space race again, because it has already been won. This is sort of like saying Leif Erikson and the Icelandic Commonwealth won the "the new world race" in 1000AD. Whatever Columbus et al were up to would surely be of trifling concern to future generations.

It also ignores the fact that empires can decline. (Although I think the moon landing is ridiculous there is no scientific reason for it).

It’s more about establishing a permanent base or some operational capacity, not allowing China to dominate that aspect.

And yes, it’s probably also about certain aspects of anxiety and probably some panic about the prospect of American decline after so many decades of squandering everything and letting itself both be bled dry and run off a cliff by a subversive element within.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#652

Post by intrasight »

JackFr wrote: post #603
mjamesaustin wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It succeeded in the 60s because we didn't just focus attention, we focused a LOT OF MONEY on it. In comparison, today's NASA has a meager budget which has only been further slashed by the current administration. I would love to see the kind of investment in NASA we had during the 60s. The scientific advancements were staggering. Today, the only thing we have money for is weapons and warfare.

> we focused a LOT OF MONEY on it Apollo at its height commanded 0.8% of the entire US economy.

AI is today's equivalent race. I wouldn't be surprised if it's now over 1% of the US economy.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#653

Post by skeeter2020 »

bdangubic wrote: post #614
zdragnar wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America cannot possibly win the space race again, because it has already been won. The first to get there has already happened. The idea that we need to land on the moon once a generation just to say that we are as good at landing on the moon as our parents is absurd.

> The first to get there has already happened. Motorola was the first to create a handheld mobile phone, Apple just did not get that memo... :)

But Apple didn't recreate the same mobile handset as Motorola or anybody else. There is very little value or scientific benefit in going back to the moon within the parameters of this mission; it's literally "do the same thing again".

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#654

Post by briandw »

zm262 wrote: post #636
gpt5 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get this sentiment. 80% of orbital launches last year were Americans. The USA hasn't been this dominant in the space race since the 60s.

US dominates with SpaceX internet project. For moon landing it's far behind at this point.

Far behind who? China still doesn’t have a Falcon 9 competitor, let alone Starship.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#655

Post by [deleted] »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #595
fluoridation wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s just as absurd today as it was in the 60s. Nah. You can argue that the goal "land on the moon" is artificial, but it being artificial doesn't make it fake or abstract. If you're the first to achieve it then you're the first, and that's it. What does it prove if you're able to repeat it fifty years later? You didn't have to invent anything new (obviously), and you're certainly not learning anything new. Now, if…

> What does it prove if you're able to repeat it fifty years later? You didn't have to invent anything new (obviously), and you're certainly not learning anything new. Despite you throwing the word "obviously" at it, that is an extremely untrue claim. Even if we hadn't forgotten a lot of the details, we're solving new engineering challenges with modern material science and manufacturing, and learning a lot of new thi…

[deleted]

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#656

Post by Buttons840 »

arnaudsm wrote: post #137

I highly recommend this talk at the American Astronomical Society from last year, which talks about the engineering culture at NASA and why Artemis has been slower than Apollo so far. https://youtu.be/OoJsPvmFixU?t=1112

This is Destin of SmarterEveryDay. This is a very good speech, very courageous and has implications for all of society.

American society seems to be more and more controlled by people in positions where they cannot fail. The example that originally put this idea in my head was the Mozilla CEO who, oversaw a year during which Firefox usership fell, and Mozilla workers were fired, and then the CEO received a pay raise. A job where it's not possible to fail. You get paid no matter what, probably get a raise.

In the video Destin keeps asking "we're going right?", throughout the whole video, and the truth is everyone in the room is hesitant to say yes.

Destin keeps narrating and apologizing for his own speech (because he doesn't want to burn every bridge he has with NASA), but history will make Destin look like a prophet I think. I think this speech is worthy of the history books.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#657

Post by HardCodedBias »

allenrb wrote: post #373

There is just so much wrong with this from start to finish. Here are a few things, by no means inclusive: 1. We’ve already beaten China to the moon by 56 years, 3 months, and some change. And counting. 2. Nothing based around SLS is remotely serious. The cost and timeline of doing anything with it are unreasonable. It is an absolute dead-end. The SpaceX Super Heavy has been more capable arguably as early as the secon…

IIUC there are few "prime" locations on the moon. NASA publicly named 13 specific candidate regions.

The nations will will likely use "safety zones" to exclude others from their base of operations. We'll see the radius of these zones but expect 200m - 2km for a start.

There is a reason to think that there is a race. Without very advanced automation all of this is pointless, but I am willing to wager that many think that advanced automation will occur within a short timeframe.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#658

Post by fsckboy »

Waterluvian wrote: post #564
fsckboy wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America of Theseus is a great phrase, quite apt for describing "the American Experiment" and the numerous ways America reinvents itself. but I don't see how this usage of it provides any discernable meaning. Ship of Theseus is more a question than an answer, so saying "America of Theseus, therefore 1969 or any connection to it is irrelevant" doesn't follow.

I think it’s apt because the Ship of Theseus as a thought experiment is unanswerable. It’s both. It’s neither. America does keep reinventing itself. It has few of the same parts as before, but it still resembles some concept of “America” in many ways. In that way it is the same ship. But is it the same ship? Can it win a space race today that a previous manifestation of America could? Maybe it’s not the same ship and…

I agree with what you are saying, but feel that the original usage (above) had a POV, as if that POV was in keeping with the thought experiment. (now, any POV is in keeping from a thought experiment, but it cannot be said except in extremis to follow from the thought experiment

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#659

Post by [deleted] »

zm262 wrote: post #636
gpt5 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get this sentiment. 80% of orbital launches last year were Americans. The USA hasn't been this dominant in the space race since the 60s.

US dominates with SpaceX internet project. For moon landing it's far behind at this point.

[deleted]

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#660

Post by elzbardico »

zm262 wrote: post #641
elzbardico wrote: post #639

Lots of people complaining that we have already won the "moon race" and that this makes no sense. This is a completely wrong reading of the situation. Let's say we forgot how to do heart transplants. Once we did them a few times perfectly, got all surgical techniques right, but patients died shortly after the surgery due to rejection. We quit the whole transplants stuff for years, the techniques and the equipments we…

It matters more to US politically than scientifically. It's totally about the US mojo in the eyes of politicians and thus funding.

American mojo have real world economic consequences. The value of the dollar depends a lot on how the rest of the world sees America.
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