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NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

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Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#611
post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not at all convinced the US can build anything anymore. But it has! Look at all of our private industry! That's the point! > We don't have titans of industry anymore. What?!

SpaceX and to a much lesser extent Tesla are good examples. Excluding those for a minute, what else does the US have world-leading manufacturing of? Semiconductors? Nope. High speed rail? Nope. Auto industry? Nope. Major infrastructure projects like bridges, tunnels, airports, etc? Nope. Electronics (phones/laptops/etc)? Nope. ????? The US is not exactly a manufacturing powerhouse.

Data centers.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#612
post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Based on SLS and the comments here, it seems extremely unlikely the US is still dominant. Literally every other nation is trying to catch up to Space-X and is nowhere close. An American company, based in American, primarily staffed by American engineers. I don't know by what measure you'd say that the US isn's still far, far ahead but I don't know of any other country currently re-using rockets dozens of times. What…

Personally, I think it matters whether its achieved by a private company versus by society. That's especially the case when the private company is so closely tied to someone who hates and alienates so much of society. I don't think that I could view a win for Musk as a win for anything that looks like my chunk of the US. There's also the fact that part of NASA's mission is to share their knowledge with the public.

> Personally, I think it matters whether its achieved by a private company versus by society.

People appreciate German cars just fine, and no one seems to be particularly bothered that they are produced by workers in private sector companies instead of 'by society'. Whatever that even means.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#613
post #180

> pushed the deadline for a lunar landing to the end of the Trump administration in 2029. I wonder why this happened. Hopefully not to satisfy the ego of the POTUS. That kind of rush leads to disaster

They were literally 'inventing the wheel' of space travel in the 1960's to meet JFK's deadline. Four years may sound insane to you, but they did in 8 during a time they were still using slide rules and the integrated circuit didn't even exist for 80% of the duration. To me it's more insane that anyone is putting priority into more manned missions when you can launch at least 10x unmanned for the same cost. Scientific…

> during a time they were still using slide rules

tbh i would rather they use slide rules than chatgpt to build rockets.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: 1. I think the America of Theseus mindset is a bit troubling. A lot of people like to identify with achievements that they played no role in. Based on zero expertise whatsoever, I have a sense that this is a bit self defeating. To be born a winner, to be taught you’re a winner… how can that be healthy? Today’s America scores zero points for its accomplishments of the past. But I think one way it can be a good thi…

America cannot possibly win the space race again, because it has already been won. The first to get there has already happened. The idea that we need to land on the moon once a generation just to say that we are as good at landing on the moon as our parents is absurd.

> The first to get there has already happened.

Motorola was the first to create a handheld mobile phone, Apple just did not get that memo... :)

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#615
post #332
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't JFK say something about going to the moon by the end of the decade?

Yes, and three astronauts died.

Deaths are always terrible. But unless we have a reason to only care about astronauts specifically, once we zoom out to the entire massive endeavor and how much everyone sacrifices for any big project, three particular deaths aren't a big factor and don't do much to say if we went too fast or too slow.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: 1. I think the America of Theseus mindset is a bit troubling. A lot of people like to identify with achievements that they played no role in. Based on zero expertise whatsoever, I have a sense that this is a bit self defeating. To be born a winner, to be taught you’re a winner… how can that be healthy? Today’s America scores zero points for its accomplishments of the past. But I think one way it can be a good thi…

My first job out of law school was at a 176 year old law firm. New lawyers were socialized to identify with the past achievements of the firm, like helping J.P. Morgan build the railroads. There was a good reason for that: it socializes people to adhere to a culture and practices that have proven to be effective. You’re right that, if overdone, it can lead to complacency. But if you treat every generation as a blank…

Ah, yeah definitely! Tradition can be powerful in that way. “We’ve always done the hard things because they’re hard.”

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#617
Elon Musk has reacted in his usual professional manner. https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2025/10/elon-musk-rages-against-...

Musk ... decided to respond by posting a meme of a reporter saying, “Why are you gay?” ... He called Duffy “Sean Dummy” ... Musk posted a reality TV clip calling him an “a*s rocket”

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first job out of law school was at a 176 year old law firm. New lawyers were socialized to identify with the past achievements of the firm, like helping J.P. Morgan build the railroads. There was a good reason for that: it socializes people to adhere to a culture and practices that have proven to be effective. You’re right that, if overdone, it can lead to complacency. But if you treat every generation as a blank…

Established on 176 years of lying cheating and graft. That’s definitely a legacy. Rail was AI and dot com of the 1800s.

I expected that comment for J.P. Morgan, not rail… so upvote for you.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America of Theseus is a great phrase, quite apt for describing "the American Experiment" and the numerous ways America reinvents itself. but I don't see how this usage of it provides any discernable meaning. Ship of Theseus is more a question than an answer, so saying "America of Theseus, therefore 1969 or any connection to it is irrelevant" doesn't follow.

I think it’s apt because the Ship of Theseus as a thought experiment is unanswerable. It’s both. It’s neither. America does keep reinventing itself. It has few of the same parts as before, but it still resembles some concept of “America” in many ways. In that way it is the same ship. But is it the same ship? Can it win a space race today that a previous manifestation of America could? Maybe it’s not the same ship and…

My comment is borderline off topic, but I just can leave it at that. Sorry.

> I think it’s apt because the Ship of Theseus as a thought experiment is unanswerable.

It is answerable, you just need to go meta a little. You can argue that the Ship of Theseus doesn't exist (and didn't existed) because it is just a lot of wood. You can use reductionism further and say that wood doesn't exist, it is a bunch of atoms or quarks or whatever. The ship is just a leaky abstraction people are forced use because of their cognitive limitations. But if it is an abstraction, not a "real" thing, then I see no issues with the ship existing (in a limited sense) even after it changed all the atoms it consists of.

The other approach is to declare that a ship is not a thing, but a process. Like you do when talking about people, who change their atoms all the time, but they still keep they identity in a "magical" way. If you see people as a process, then it doesn't matter how often it replaces its matter with another matter. Like a tornado, which exists while exchanging matter with environment all the time and still being the same tornado. Or like a wave on a water surface, it doesn't have any atoms moving like a wave, but still a wave exists.

> It has few of the same parts as before, but it still resembles some concept of “America” in many ways.

It doesn't matter if there any old parts left, what matters is a continuous history.

> But is it the same ship?

It is the same ship, but its properties are changing over time. Like when people become older, some of them become wiser for example, some become physically weaker.

> But having run that race under the same banner generations ago doesn’t tell us much about the America today.

Yeah, with this I can fully agree. BTW we don't know was the Ship of Theseus becoming better or worse after repairs, but I'd bet that its maximum speed was changing due to repairs.

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