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NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

cnn.com

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Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#601

Post by Dylan16807 »

zdragnar wrote: post #497
Waterluvian wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: 1. I think the America of Theseus mindset is a bit troubling. A lot of people like to identify with achievements that they played no role in. Based on zero expertise whatsoever, I have a sense that this is a bit self defeating. To be born a winner, to be taught you’re a winner… how can that be healthy? Today’s America scores zero points for its accomplishments of the past. But I think one way it can be a good thi…

America cannot possibly win the space race again, because it has already been won. The first to get there has already happened. The idea that we need to land on the moon once a generation just to say that we are as good at landing on the moon as our parents is absurd.

> The idea that we need to land on the moon once a generation just to say that we are as good at landing on the moon as our parents is absurd.

In the sense that we don't need to do either, that's true. But if we want to claim we're still competent moon landers, we do need to repeat the task every once in a while to keep that capability. And there are good scientific benefits from continuing to do difficult space launches of many types.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#602

Post by ACCount37 »

bahmboo wrote: post #227

"The president and I want to get to the moon in this president's term" - Sean Duffy NASA administrator. A scary way to set a schedule on a complex project with lives at stake. They don't care though.

The current 2027 deadline is a sad joke.

By now, a slip to NET 2030 is expected - but clearly, no one is in a hurry to break the news to Trump.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#603

Post by JackFr »

mjamesaustin wrote: post #550
Waterluvian wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s just as absurd today as it was in the 60s. It’s an artificial challenge that focuses attention, with the goal of exercising government, industries, academics, etc. and maybe learn and invent a few things along the way. Yes, yes, Cold War and all those theories. But it had and can again have this greater effect. It’s kind of like a FIRST Robotics Challenge for nations. The specific goal really doesn’t matter and…

It succeeded in the 60s because we didn't just focus attention, we focused a LOT OF MONEY on it. In comparison, today's NASA has a meager budget which has only been further slashed by the current administration. I would love to see the kind of investment in NASA we had during the 60s. The scientific advancements were staggering. Today, the only thing we have money for is weapons and warfare.

> we focused a LOT OF MONEY on it

Apollo at its height commanded 0.8% of the entire US economy.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#604

Post by jjk166 »

fluoridation wrote: post #548
jjk166 wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with the shuttle wasn't the material science. It was designed around a mission profile of servicing spy satellites, which at the time had film which needed to be developed. The defense department gave NASA requirements which could only be satisfied by moving the orbiter to the side of the rocket, dramatically increasing potential damage to the thermal tiles and making crew escape basically impossible. This…

Wait, TV signals weren't unknown in the '80s and '90s. Why were they using film instead of TV cameras?

Well for starters, this was the 70s - the space shuttle's development started in 1968 and its maiden flight was in 1981. The last spy satellite program to use film ran from 1971 to 1986. Further, the issue wasn't a lack of knowledge of TV signals - the first wireless video transmission had been made in 1923. The issue was producing digital video cameras of sufficient quality for the task in an appropriate size, and then transmitting such large files to the ground. Nobody in 1968 foresaw the massive improvements in digital electronics miniaturization that would unfold over the coming decades.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#605

Post by fatbird »

qingcharles wrote: post #577
cyberge99 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which will backfire spectacularly when Obama is re-elected.

The constitutional amendment that GOP have put forward specifically prohibits any president who previously served two consecutive terms. (they had already thought this through, it literally only allows Trump three terms) “No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than three times, nor be elected to any additional term after being elected to two consecutive terms, and no person who has held the of…

They can't possibly believe that they'll get 37 states to ratify it in the next three years to make it all square and legal. Their only plausible path is some very tortured Supreme Court ruling.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#606

Post by eru »

mjamesaustin wrote: post #550
Waterluvian wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s just as absurd today as it was in the 60s. It’s an artificial challenge that focuses attention, with the goal of exercising government, industries, academics, etc. and maybe learn and invent a few things along the way. Yes, yes, Cold War and all those theories. But it had and can again have this greater effect. It’s kind of like a FIRST Robotics Challenge for nations. The specific goal really doesn’t matter and…

It succeeded in the 60s because we didn't just focus attention, we focused a LOT OF MONEY on it. In comparison, today's NASA has a meager budget which has only been further slashed by the current administration. I would love to see the kind of investment in NASA we had during the 60s. The scientific advancements were staggering. Today, the only thing we have money for is weapons and warfare.

Technological progress should allow us to repeat ancient feats for cheaper.

True excellence in engineering is being able to do amazing things within a limited budget.

(And overall, sending some primates to the moon should come out of our entertainment budgets. Manned space flight has been one giant money sink without much too show for. If you want to do anything scientifically useful in space, go for unmanned.

> Today, the only thing we have money for is weapons and warfare.

Huh? You remember the cold war? The US spends less of its total income on weapons and warfare than back then. Have a look at some statistics to find what the biggest items are these days.)

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#607

Post by excalibur »

UltraSane wrote: post #460
testing22321 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We’ve already beaten China to the moon by 56 years, 3 months, and some change. And counting Of course, but there a few things to consider. 1. This is a new race. The olympics happen every four years to see which nation is the current best. It seems it’s time to find out again. 2. The last time the US was dominant was 56 years ago. That’s three generations. Based on SLS and the comments here, it seems extremely unli…

Sending humans to the moon is just burning money though. It isn't useful at all.

That does seem to be the trend these days. See: AI proliferation, cryptocurrency.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#608

Post by eru »

darepublic wrote: post #593
zdragnar wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America cannot possibly win the space race again, because it has already been won. The first to get there has already happened. The idea that we need to land on the moon once a generation just to say that we are as good at landing on the moon as our parents is absurd.

I mean it may not be a good reason but it would boost morale. I'd be happy about it

Buying everyone a puppy would presumably also raise morale.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#609

Post by themgt »

zdragnar wrote: post #497
Waterluvian wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: 1. I think the America of Theseus mindset is a bit troubling. A lot of people like to identify with achievements that they played no role in. Based on zero expertise whatsoever, I have a sense that this is a bit self defeating. To be born a winner, to be taught you’re a winner… how can that be healthy? Today’s America scores zero points for its accomplishments of the past. But I think one way it can be a good thi…

America cannot possibly win the space race again, because it has already been won. The first to get there has already happened. The idea that we need to land on the moon once a generation just to say that we are as good at landing on the moon as our parents is absurd.

America cannot possibly win the space race again, because it has already been won.

This is sort of like saying Leif Erikson and the Icelandic Commonwealth won the "the new world race" in 1000AD. Whatever Columbus et al were up to would surely be of trifling concern to future generations.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#610

Post by eru »

naasking wrote: post #544
Waterluvian wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: 1. I think the America of Theseus mindset is a bit troubling. A lot of people like to identify with achievements that they played no role in. Based on zero expertise whatsoever, I have a sense that this is a bit self defeating. To be born a winner, to be taught you’re a winner… how can that be healthy? Today’s America scores zero points for its accomplishments of the past. But I think one way it can be a good thi…

> A lot of people like to identify with achievements that they played no role in. They arguably footed the bill.

Are you suggesting people eg born after 1980 footed the bill for the Apollo programme?
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