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NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

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Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#561

Post by heavyset_go »

harimau777 wrote: post #518
Waterluvian wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s just as absurd today as it was in the 60s. It’s an artificial challenge that focuses attention, with the goal of exercising government, industries, academics, etc. and maybe learn and invent a few things along the way. Yes, yes, Cold War and all those theories. But it had and can again have this greater effect. It’s kind of like a FIRST Robotics Challenge for nations. The specific goal really doesn’t matter and…

Excellent point! I'd add that it also serves to inspire regular people and get them interested in science. Unfortunately, I think that's the problem with some of the rhetoric like "the green revolution will be the next space race!" For better or worse, solar panels aren't as inspiring to most people as space is.

A lot of money and time were behind the space race propaganda arm that got people excited about advancements in space technology.

If the same resources were put into popularizing advancements in energy, you'd see more excitement. As it is, there are kids growing up excited about environmentalism like there were kids growing up excited about space.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#562

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

decimalenough wrote: post #522
the__alchemist wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if we'll get a demonstration from China in the next few decades.

China's stated goal is to get people on the moon by 2030. This may slip by a year or two, but probably not much more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Lunar_Exploration_Prog... The main hurdle is the CZ-10 rocket, which has not flown yet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_March_10 But they have plenty of rocketry experience and the YF-100K engine they'll use for CZ-10 has successfully flown on the CZ-12: https:…

I’m still wanting a great explanation why we could do it in the 60s, but China can’t do it until 2030s.

The reason I’m told we don’t do it today, is that we don’t want to. OK, China does, so what is the hold up that applies now?

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#563

Post by nxor »

harimau777 wrote: post #527
tw04 wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Based on SLS and the comments here, it seems extremely unlikely the US is still dominant. Literally every other nation is trying to catch up to Space-X and is nowhere close. An American company, based in American, primarily staffed by American engineers. I don't know by what measure you'd say that the US isn's still far, far ahead but I don't know of any other country currently re-using rockets dozens of times. What…

Personally, I think it matters whether its achieved by a private company versus by society. That's especially the case when the private company is so closely tied to someone who hates and alienates so much of society. I don't think that I could view a win for Musk as a win for anything that looks like my chunk of the US. There's also the fact that part of NASA's mission is to share their knowledge with the public.

> so much of society

Much of society agrees with his points on crime

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#564

Post by Waterluvian »

fsckboy wrote: post #553
whtrbt wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

_America of Theseus_ is a great shorthand for what you're describing. Did you just come up with it then?

America of Theseus is a great phrase, quite apt for describing "the American Experiment" and the numerous ways America reinvents itself. but I don't see how this usage of it provides any discernable meaning. Ship of Theseus is more a question than an answer, so saying "America of Theseus, therefore 1969 or any connection to it is irrelevant" doesn't follow.

I think it’s apt because the Ship of Theseus as a thought experiment is unanswerable. It’s both. It’s neither.

America does keep reinventing itself. It has few of the same parts as before, but it still resembles some concept of “America” in many ways. In that way it is the same ship.

But is it the same ship? Can it win a space race today that a previous manifestation of America could? Maybe it’s not the same ship and what it could do in the 60s it can no longer do today.

I certainly don’t think it’s a question that demands an answer. Perfectly valid to choose not to show up to the starting line. But having run that race under the same banner generations ago doesn’t tell us much about the America today.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#565

Post by dotnet00 »

dmvdoug wrote: post #519
dotnet00 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The industry is going through growing pains, New Glenn is almost ready for payloads, Neutron is a year or two away from flying, and other small launch companies are in the process of pivoting to either medium launch or space services. I'm not seeing what makes SpaceX government funded beyond just that it provides services to the government? The same as any other launch provider would be doing? At this point the vast…

> * I'm not seeing what makes SpaceX government funded beyond just that it provides services to the government* Take away all of SpaceX‘s government contracts. You imagine SpaceX would still be in business? As you said, every launch provider is basically dependent on government contracts to stay in business because the government is the only entity that has a legitimate need for launch capability such that it’s willi…

Do you have any evidence for any of your claims beyond not liking the idiot that owns the company?

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#566

Post by jjk166 »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #447
jjk166 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who was president during the moonlanding?

JFK got assassinated.....

And was the guy who took over after his assassination, and then won the next election, president during the moon landings?

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#567

Post by nxor »

underlipton wrote: post #492
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mars is entirely within reach if we wanted to dedicate the resources to it. If we can get to the moon over 50 years ago, Mars is nothing today. I don't necessarily think it would be worth it given the cost, but it is totally possible if it was a priority.

Space and the moon were so important that we famously put black female mathematicians on the job in the waning years of Jim Crow. The current admin is dismantling not just so-called DEI, but decades of civil rights protections that ultimately allowed things like SGI's 3D rendering pipeline to exist. This is just one of the myriad ways that America is not in any way serious about a task as monumental as reaching Mars…

Because the protections get abused. See college admissions.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#568

Post by philistine »

allenrb wrote: post #373

There is just so much wrong with this from start to finish. Here are a few things, by no means inclusive: 1. We’ve already beaten China to the moon by 56 years, 3 months, and some change. And counting. 2. Nothing based around SLS is remotely serious. The cost and timeline of doing anything with it are unreasonable. It is an absolute dead-end. The SpaceX Super Heavy has been more capable arguably as early as the secon…

It's possible we've simply reached the next step in the relationship between Trump/Musk: inevitable betrayal by Trump after the cooling off period.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#569

Post by nxor »

tinfoilhatter wrote: post #542
Braxton1980 wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing their side beliefs and oddities to others main careers and expertise

I would hardly call being a Nazi a side belief or oddity. It was a pretty defining part of his identity. Same with Jack Parsons and occultism - it helped shaped much of his personality and beliefs. Regardless of all of that, the point I was attempting to make, wasn't they were Nazis or occultists. Rather, it was that they were members of influential societies / networks of people and didn't necessarily obtain their p…

They don't seem to care. It's not, by the way, like the other side hasn't done similar things. In fact, it seems common here in the US to employ people for some other reason than them being capable of something.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#570

Post by nxor »

WalterBright wrote: post #510
mikkupikku wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dead lines, political pressure to ignore issues and get it done, is how you get astronauts dead. Apollo 1, Challenger, Columbia. And of course Soyuz 1 and Soyuz 11 / Salyut 1; it's not just a problem for America. I fear it's going to happen again; Orion isn't safe and hasn't been successfully tested. The heat shield started to disintegrate the last time they tested it and instead of testing it again with their change…

Charles Lindbergh knew his chances of dying crossing the Atlantic were pretty high. After all, previous attempts resulted in many deaths. Armstrong's personal estimate of his odds getting back alive were about 50%. Apollo 13 came within a hair of killing its crew. I fly across the North Atlantic at 30,000 feet, death in seconds if the hull is breached, in a comfortable chair, watching a movie and sipping a drink. Isn…

Planes are incredible. And people die every day flying them. The public seems to have found that out this year
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