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NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

cnn.com

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Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#301

Post by chrisco255 »

caconym_ wrote: post #291
thegrim33 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Artemis plan was originally to return to moon by 2024, and the first crewed flight is still planned for next year, so it seems entirely reasonable for a President that's in office from 2024 and 2028 to want it to actually happen within that time frame. Since, you know, that's been the established and agreed upon plan for nearly a decade now.

2024 was never considered remotely realistic by anybody in the "industry"---it was a purely political deadline and the will/funding was not there to achieve it. Today (AFAIK) 2028 is considered quite aggressive, mostly due to the lack of progress on Starship, and the facts driving that conclusion are not any more amenable to change via political pressure than they were last time.

There is no reason to consider anytime frame beyond what NASA did it in in the 60s "unreasonable". They were still using slide rules for goodness sake. We've got now 50+ years of space flight experience under our belt.

Bean counters make excuses. Put the right people in the right places and shit gets done.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#302

Post by oceanplexian »

vrindavan1 wrote: post #172
random3 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the main motivation for the moon? Is it a better location than the international space station? What’s the reasoning there?

I think its to prepare for mars (sort of), its the closest place where we can build a self-sustaining civilization.

"Close" means a different thing in Space than it does on Earth.

If the planets are aligned the Delta-V is not that different between the two (Mars is about twice as much Delta-V for 100x the distance). You can use aerobraking in the Mars atmosphere but can do no such thing on the Moon. And then the last problem is that on the Moon you need to budget for a round trip, but on Mars we could produce fuel on the surface for the return trip. When you start thinking about all that it's obvious that Mars makes more sense.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#303

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

croes wrote: post #180

> pushed the deadline for a lunar landing to the end of the Trump administration in 2029. I wonder why this happened. Hopefully not to satisfy the ego of the POTUS. That kind of rush leads to disaster

They were literally 'inventing the wheel' of space travel in the 1960's to meet JFK's deadline.

Four years may sound insane to you, but they did in 8 during a time they were still using slide rules and the integrated circuit didn't even exist for 80% of the duration.

To me it's more insane that anyone is putting priority into more manned missions when you can launch at least 10x unmanned for the same cost. Scientifically speaking, I'm not sure what exists to be gained by a human on another planet versus a rover. A manned colony sounds cool but that's about the extent of its usefulness.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#304

Post by SteveNuts »

bahmboo wrote: post #227

"The president and I want to get to the moon in this president's term" - Sean Duffy NASA administrator. A scary way to set a schedule on a complex project with lives at stake. They don't care though.

All they need to do now is insert a private company into the go/no-go checklist before launch and it'll be totally safe. /s

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#305

Post by ambicapter »

oceanplexian wrote: post #267
bahmboo wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a political deadline with no grounding in reality.

JFK proposed we go to the Moon in 1962. We did it in 1969, 7 years later.

Crucially, not during his term (or his life, but that's irrelevant).

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#306

Post by tastyface »

echelon wrote: post #293
bahmboo wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a political deadline with no grounding in reality.

I feel like that attitude has kept us on earth all this time. We let people do stupid shit and kill themselves all the time. Driving 80+ MPH, driving motorcycles, recreational drugs, alcohol, climbing Everest, etc. I think it's fine. If I were in the position, I'd sign up to do this. The moon is meaningful.

[flagged]

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#307

Post by mikkupikku »

WalterBright wrote: post #237
bahmboo wrote: post #227

"The president and I want to get to the moon in this president's term" - Sean Duffy NASA administrator. A scary way to set a schedule on a complex project with lives at stake. They don't care though.

Having a deadline is how things get done. With no deadline, nothing gets accomplished.

Deadlines, political pressure to ignore issues and get it done, is how you get astronauts dead. Apollo 1, Challenger, Columbia. And of course Soyuz 1 and Soyuz 11 / Salyut 1; it's not just a problem for America.

I fear it's going to happen again; Orion isn't safe and hasn't been successfully tested. The heat shield started to disintegrate the last time they tested it and instead of testing it again with their changes they're going to put people in it next time.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#308

Post by oytis »

bahmboo wrote: post #227

"The president and I want to get to the moon in this president's term" - Sean Duffy NASA administrator. A scary way to set a schedule on a complex project with lives at stake. They don't care though.

America is becoming a silly place. Lumberjack appointed as a head of NASA for his loyalty.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#309

Post by jotux »

teekert wrote: post #266

Why does this sounds so... Entitled? NASA regresses so far that they are now unable to do anything by themselves... Now suddenly there is a new moon race and they start pointing to a public company that is not sticking to a schedule. A company that does some impressive things, and has helped them out (probably not out of the goodness of their hearts, but hey), and is doing things they could not. I would be an adult a…

>NASA regresses so far that they are now unable to do anything by themselves...

I keep running across this perception and I don't understand where it comes from. Overwhelmingly, like since the 1970s, NASA has not built anything per it's appropriations from congress. Their job is to 1) Define mission requirements and objectives, 2) Oversee contracts to execute those missions, 3) Test and verify elements of those systems, and very distant 4) do some in-house research and development for cutting edge technology (still mostly contracted out). ~75% of their budget is contracts to private companies to execute missions.

NASA's job, as defined NASA directors over the years and by congress via appropriations, is to come up with ideas and fund private companies to execute them.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#310

Post by 9dev »

HPsquared wrote: post #287

It would be cool if the main space race was between NASA and SpaceX. It's like how the US has three of the top five air forces in the world (USAF, Army, Navy)

It ain’t, though. NASA hasn’t retained much of their previous capabilities, and China’s space program is making progress fast.
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