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Public trust demands open-source voting systems

voting.works

11–20 of 292 posts

Re: Public trust demands open-source voting systems

#11
post #5

* Opens Github repo * Opens Cargo.lock [1] and pnpm-lock.yaml [2] * Closes Cargo.lock and pnpm-lock.yaml * Goes to find a Tylenol At least with open source we can see the sausage getting made... [1] https://github.com/votingworks/vxsuite/blob/main/Cargo.lock [2] https://github.com/votingworks/vxsuite/blob/main/pnpm-lock.y...

EW. Here, I’ll share some of my Extra Strength Acetaminophen. Those are some cursed lock files.

Re: Public trust demands open-source voting systems

#12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and it's inner workings are 100% transparent.

Paper still needs a system to verify ballots aren't forged, and that system should be robust and transparent too.

The system is a whole bunch of people from different parties being present when votes are collected and counted. And with paper ballots you need to do the fraud in many different polling stations.

It is possible to do small-scale fraud with paper ballots, you can never fully eliminate that option. But it is exceedingly hard to do larger scale fraud without it being extremely obvious to any observer.

Re: Public trust demands open-source voting systems

#13
No. Public trust demands no software or programmable hardware in the election process.

• Why Electronic Voting is a BAD Idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI>

• Why Electronic Voting Is Still A Bad Idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH2r-sNjQs>

Re: Public trust demands open-source voting systems

#14
post #13

No. Public trust demands no software or programmable hardware in the election process. • Why Electronic Voting is a BAD Idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI > • Why Electronic Voting Is Still A Bad Idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH2r-sNjQs >

Ironically, that results in worse count accuracy.

Humans are actually quite bad at hand-tallying hundreds of millions of datapoints. Our eyes go glassy but we press on anyway.

Machines are very good at doing that kind of tedious labor accurately.

Whether human beings will put more trust in a system that we know will be wrong, but it's wrong for comfortable meat reasons, over a system that might be compromised but will be more accurate its more of a psychology question than a technical question though.

Re: Public trust demands open-source voting systems

#15
post #5

* Opens Github repo * Opens Cargo.lock [1] and pnpm-lock.yaml [2] * Closes Cargo.lock and pnpm-lock.yaml * Goes to find a Tylenol At least with open source we can see the sausage getting made... [1] https://github.com/votingworks/vxsuite/blob/main/Cargo.lock [2] https://github.com/votingworks/vxsuite/blob/main/pnpm-lock.y...

Even after reading your comment I was not quite ready for that. I am gobsmacked, over 30K lines of lock file! Are we supposed to have trust in that?

Re: Public trust demands open-source voting systems

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and it's incredible how many problems are solved by hand-counted paper ballots. I get that it's a big task, that it takes time (and some US administrations seem to despise not knowing election results the night of the election), and that it's very tempting to automate, but the basic formula of 1) everyone gets a paper ballot; 2) the ballots are collected at a polling station; 3) the ballots are counted by hand i…

Other countries get preliminary election results the same day even with hand-counted paper ballots. So even that isn't impossible.

You can also use statistical techniques to audit results that are for the most part automatically tabulated by machine.

Re: Public trust demands open-source voting systems

#17
post #5

* Opens Github repo * Opens Cargo.lock [1] and pnpm-lock.yaml [2] * Closes Cargo.lock and pnpm-lock.yaml * Goes to find a Tylenol At least with open source we can see the sausage getting made... [1] https://github.com/votingworks/vxsuite/blob/main/Cargo.lock [2] https://github.com/votingworks/vxsuite/blob/main/pnpm-lock.y...

[deleted]

Re: Public trust demands open-source voting systems

#18

Is paper considered open source?

These kinds of comments always annoy me a bit. It's 2025. 155,238,302 people voted in the most recent US presidential election. It is entirely silly that we expect people to manually count that many ballots in this day and age. And count them without errors! (And yes, we can make those paper ballots machine-readable, but you still need software to count them.)

Yes, I know: before computers and other mechanical systems, people had to count ballots by hand. There were many fewer people voting then, and regardless, that's not really the point: they counted by hand because they had no alternative.

Electronic voting certainly brings new problems into the mix. I don't think those problems are insurmountable. The problem isn't the technology itself. It's the legal and social landscape around voting technology. Open source, with reproducible builds and a method to verify that the code running on a machine was built from a particular version of source, is a start. Verification of that software's functionality, on par with the verification done of critical software (medical devices, things that go into space, slot machines, etc.) would be another good move.

Voters can also receive paper receipts, and I'm sure we can come up with some sort of scheme to take a representative sample of the electronically-recorded votes and validate them against the paper receipts, while maintaining voter privacy.

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