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Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

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Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#21

Post by dlisboa »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #12
hunglee2 wrote: post #2

The US attempt to slow down China's technological development succeeds on the basis of preventing China from directly following the same path, but may backfire in the sense it forces innovation by China in a different direction. The overall outcome for us all may be increase efficiency as a result of this forced innovation, especially if Chinese companies continue to open source their advances, so we may in the end h…

I think anti-immigrant rhetoric will have the most impact against the US. A lot of the people innovating on this stuff are being maligned and leaving in droves. Aside from geography, attracting talent from all over the world is the one edge the US has a nation over countries like China. But now the US is trying to be xenophobic like China, restrict tech import/export like China but compete against 10x population and…

> But, China's greatest weakness is their lack of ambition and focus on regional matters like Taiwan and south china sea, instead of winning over western europe and india.

That's a strength. Them not having interest in global domination and regime change other than their backyard is what allows them to easily make partners in Africa and LATAM, the most important regions for raw materials.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#22

Post by rayiner »

dlisboa wrote: post #11
hunglee2 wrote: post #2

The US attempt to slow down China's technological development succeeds on the basis of preventing China from directly following the same path, but may backfire in the sense it forces innovation by China in a different direction. The overall outcome for us all may be increase efficiency as a result of this forced innovation, especially if Chinese companies continue to open source their advances, so we may in the end h…

History has shown that withholding technology from China does not significantly stop them and they'll achieve it (or better) in a small number of years. In many senses there's hubris in the western* view of China accomplishments: most of what western companies have created has had significant contribution by Chinese scientists or manufacturing, without which those companies would have nothing. If you look at the name…

Nobody thinks the Japanese aren’t “civilized.” “Western” is just a euphemism for “rich and orderly.”

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#23

Post by throwaway48476 »

Its easy enough for a a well resourced entity to take a pre trained model and deploy it on new hardware to save on the NVDA tax. It's far less likely for research and model training to happen outside the mature NVDA ecosystem.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#24

Post by IT4MD »

hunglee2 wrote: post #2

The US attempt to slow down China's technological development succeeds on the basis of preventing China from directly following the same path, but may backfire in the sense it forces innovation by China in a different direction. The overall outcome for us all may be increase efficiency as a result of this forced innovation, especially if Chinese companies continue to open source their advances, so we may in the end h…

I believe this is an Pollyanna take on AI. There is nothing about humans that tells us humans will bring AI to fruition for the other humans and a mountain of evidence showing how it will be used to abuse humans instead....for profits/power/whatever horse shit the masters of the universe have decided upon.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#25

Post by drittel »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #12
hunglee2 wrote: post #2

The US attempt to slow down China's technological development succeeds on the basis of preventing China from directly following the same path, but may backfire in the sense it forces innovation by China in a different direction. The overall outcome for us all may be increase efficiency as a result of this forced innovation, especially if Chinese companies continue to open source their advances, so we may in the end h…

I think anti-immigrant rhetoric will have the most impact against the US. A lot of the people innovating on this stuff are being maligned and leaving in droves. Aside from geography, attracting talent from all over the world is the one edge the US has a nation over countries like China. But now the US is trying to be xenophobic like China, restrict tech import/export like China but compete against 10x population and…

[flagged]

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#26

Post by sofixa »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #20
dlisboa wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History has shown that withholding technology from China does not significantly stop them and they'll achieve it (or better) in a small number of years. In many senses there's hubris in the western* view of China accomplishments: most of what western companies have created has had significant contribution by Chinese scientists or manufacturing, without which those companies would have nothing. If you look at the name…

> History has shown that withholding technology from China does not significantly stop them and they'll achieve it (or better) in a small number of years. It's worked for a very long time for aircraft. China has been pushing to build its own aircraft for >23 years. It took 14 years for COMAC to get its first regional jet flying commercial flights on a Chinese airline, and 21 years to get a narrow-body plane flying a…

> China has been pushing to build its own aircraft for >23 years. It took 14 years for COMAC to get its first regional jet flying commercial flights on a Chinese airline, and 21 years to get a narrow-body plane flying a commercial flight on a Chinese airline

And both those planes have a strong dependency on "western" components that won't be overcome before the 2030s, and even then, they're around a generation behind.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#27

Post by bad_haircut72 »

rayiner wrote: post #22
dlisboa wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History has shown that withholding technology from China does not significantly stop them and they'll achieve it (or better) in a small number of years. In many senses there's hubris in the western* view of China accomplishments: most of what western companies have created has had significant contribution by Chinese scientists or manufacturing, without which those companies would have nothing. If you look at the name…

Nobody thinks the Japanese aren’t “civilized.” “Western” is just a euphemism for “rich and orderly.”

Its more about democracy and adhering to the global (set up by America post WW2) system of laws and trade.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#28

Post by mixologist »

hunglee2 wrote: post #10
segmondy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

may backfire? it's a bit too late for that. go to 2024, western labs were crushing it. it's now 2025, and from china, we have deepseek, qwen, kimi, glm, ernie and many more capable models keeping up with western labs. there are actually now more chinese labs releasing sota models than western labs.

too early to call a winner, though it is disappointing to see US withdrawal from open source. Still the main outcome of open source is distribution / diffusion of the idea, so it will inevitably mean US open source will come back, hopefully via some grass roots maniac, there will be a Linus-like character emerge at some point

user growth has slowed. the technology that should help users is only being pushed from the top, while users refuse to use it. openai pivoted to porn.

does it really feel like they have a chance to recover all the expenses in the future?

crypto grifters pivoted to ai and, same as last time, normal people don’t want to have anything to do with them.

considering the amount of money burned on this garbage, i think we can at least declare a looser.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#29

Post by ksynwa »

drittel wrote: post #25
notepad0x90 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think anti-immigrant rhetoric will have the most impact against the US. A lot of the people innovating on this stuff are being maligned and leaving in droves. Aside from geography, attracting talent from all over the world is the one edge the US has a nation over countries like China. But now the US is trying to be xenophobic like China, restrict tech import/export like China but compete against 10x population and…

[flagged]

Wow

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#30

Post by sofixa »

dataviz1000 wrote: post #7
reliabilityguy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbh this whole situation reminds of how Japan excelled in making a lot more with a lot less after WW2, e.g., fuel-efficient engines, light cars, etc. these constraints were not present in the US (and to some extent in Europe), and resulted in US cars being completely not competitive in non-US markets.

I've been in Chile, Peru, Colombia, Panama, and Costa Rica. The streets are flooded with cheap Chinese cars and I see more BYD than American cars. If the car wasn't made in Japan or Korea which probably account for most of the cars, it was likely made in China. Moreover, I haven't been in countries with the closest ties to China.

> The streets are flooded with cheap Chinese cars and I see more BYD than American cars

This isn't surprising in any way, American "cars" (quotes because the vast majority of what American manufacturers pump out isn't cars, it's trucks) haven't been competitive in decades. The only globally competitive vehicles were developed in Europe by GM Europe (Opel, since sold to PSA now Stellantis) or Ford Europe (which axed all models bar the Puma). The rest is too big, expensive and inefficient from the vast majority of uses. Tariffs and good marketing keep American car manufacturers in business in the US, but those don't work in most other markets.

The more appropriate comparison is with European automakers such as VW Group, Stellantis (Peugeot, Citroën, DS, Fiat, Chrysler, Dodge, Ram), Renault. And there too BYD is winning as well in mosy countries, but at least there's a comparison possible.

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