Forth: The programming language that writes itself

I think it's a simple abstraction situation and the move for programming environments that include everything.

Geordi Laforge doesn't code much on the Enterprise. He simply asks the computer to build him a model of the anomaly so he can test out ideas. In a way, modern languages like Python (even before LLMs) let you get a lot closer to that reality. Sure you had to know some language basics, but this was pretty minimal and you'd use those basic building blocks to glue together libraries to make an application. Python has a good library for practically anything I do and since this is standard, it's expected that a task doesn't take too long. I can't tell my boss I'll need 3 years to code my own solution that uses my own libraries for numpy and scipy. You're expected to glue libraries together. This is why MIT moved SICP from scheme to Python. It's a different world.

With Forth, every program is a work of art that encapsulates an entire solution to a problem from scratch. It's creator chuck moore takes this to such a level that he also fabs his own chips to work with his forth software optimally. These languages had libraries, but they weren't easy to share and didn't have any kind of repository before Perl's CPAN. Perl really took off for awhile, but Python won out by having a simpler language with builtin OO (Perl's approach was a really hacky builtin OO or you download a library...).

To be honest though, I spent a decade trying many languages (dozens including common lisp, Prolog, APL, C, Ada, Smalltalk, Perl, C#, C++, Tcl, Lua, Rust...etc) looking for the best and although I never became experts in those languages, I kept coming to the conclusion that for my particular set of needs, Python was the best I could find. I wasted a lot of time reading common lisp books and just found it much easier to get the same thing done in Python. Your mileage will vary if you're doing something like building a game engine. A lot of people are just doing process automation and stuff like that and languages like Python are just better than common lisp due to the environment and tooling benefits. Also, although Python isn't as conceptually beautiful as lisp, I found it much easier to learn. The syntax just really clicked for me and some people do prefer it.

Isn’t structure lost in the compilation process?

I mean, we already have bits and pieces of what you want, like an assembler to C decompiler, but the output isn’t very nice without the types.

And how many languages can run on the CIL in dotnet. Say we create a CIL to lambda calculus compiler. Where do we go from there?

There's a certain mesmerizing effect that creeps in once you start digging into programming language fundamentals.

Any kind of notation, really, can do that to a person. It's kind of hypnotic.

I avoid it like the plague (getting too much into it). Not because I dislike it, but because I like it so much.

I believe the ideal programming language must be full of problems, and then obvious ways to get around those problems. It's better than a near-perfect language with one or two problems that are very hard to get around.

The "Stop Writing Dead Programs" video mentioned is quite nice. It's surprising how the web is a platform for many of the languages the presenter offer as inspiration.

I was captivated by the August 1980 issue of Byte magazine, which had a cover dedicated to Forth. It was supposed to be easy to implement, and I imagined I might do that with my new KIM-1 6502 board. Alas, the KIM-1 was lost when I went to college, and life forced me down different pathways for the next 45 years.

About a year ago I finally began to work on my dream of a Forth implementation by building a Forth-based flight management computer into a spaceflight simulation game that I am working on. Now, instead of writing mostly C# or GDscript code in Godot, I am trying to figure out ways to create a useful device using this awkwardly elegant language. I'm having fun with it.

One of the interesting bits is that I have been able to make the Forth code an entirely separate project on Github (https://github.com/Eccentric-Anomalies/Sky-Dart-FMS), with a permissive open-source license. If anyone actually built a real spacecraft like the one in my game, they could use the FMS code in a real computer to run it.

There is one part of the linked article that really speaks to me: "Implement a Forth to understand how it works" and "But be aware of what this will not teach you". Figuring out the implementation just from reading books was a fascinating puzzle. Once I got it running, I realized I had zero experience actually writing Forth code. I am enjoying it, but it is a lot like writing in some weird, abstract assembly language.