Forth: The programming language that writes itself
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Forth: The programming language that writes itself
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Re: Forth: The programming language that writes itself
#2[deleted]
Re: Forth: The programming language that writes itself
#3Why is it that languages like this don't scale? It's not the first time I see a powerful language that got forgotten. Other examples include SmallTalk and Common Lisp (tiny community).
It is because some languages are "too powerful"? What does that say about our industry? That we're still not that advanced of a specie to be able to handle the full power of such languages?
I say that because it seems languages that are "dumbed down" seem to absolutely dominate our world (Python, Ruby, JS, etc.)
Re: Forth: The programming language that writes itself
#4Why is it that languages like this don't scale? It's not the first time I see a powerful language that got forgotten. Other examples include SmallTalk and Common Lisp (tiny community). It is because some languages are "too powerful"? What does that say about our industry? That we're still not that advanced of a specie to be able to handle the full power of such languages? I say that because it seems languages that ar…
They scale extremely effectively to large problems solved by a team size of one, maybe two.
The story goes that changing the language to fit how you're thinking about the problem is obstructive the rest of the people thinking about the same problem.
I'm pretty sure this story is nonsense. Popular though.
Re: Forth: The programming language that writes itself
#5Many people glorify the simplicity of Lisp as an interpreter, but Forth is similar and underappreciated. Sadly, the only code I've written in Forth is... PostScript. Yeah, PostScript is a dialect of Forth. As a child, I really was amused by the demo of GraFORTH on Apple ][, which included 3D wireframe animations, which at the time were magical.
Re: Forth: The programming language that writes itself
#6Why is it that languages like this don't scale? It's not the first time I see a powerful language that got forgotten. Other examples include SmallTalk and Common Lisp (tiny community). It is because some languages are "too powerful"? What does that say about our industry? That we're still not that advanced of a specie to be able to handle the full power of such languages? I say that because it seems languages that ar…
It kinda happened with markup languages. HTML, SVG, and some other domain specific markup languages are all XML, which is a subset of SGML.
The thing there is those DSLs have their own specs.
Coding is a social activity. Reading code is hard. When there are multiple ways of doing things, it's extra hard. People want to have relatively standardized ways of doing things so they can share code and reason about it easier.
If there's a lisp or racket or a forth that's defined as a DSL, it might take off if it's standardized and it's the best solution for the domain.
Re: Forth: The programming language that writes itself
#7Why is it that languages like this don't scale? It's not the first time I see a powerful language that got forgotten. Other examples include SmallTalk and Common Lisp (tiny community). It is because some languages are "too powerful"? What does that say about our industry? That we're still not that advanced of a specie to be able to handle the full power of such languages? I say that because it seems languages that ar…
One simpler explanation: in forth you are forced to keep the stack, and modifications to the stack, in your short term memory, albeit only really three numbers in most cases. Whereas with C et al you simply look down the page at the variables, far less taxing on your short term memory.
Well-written and designed high-level forth words often transcend that and tend to be, quite literally, readable however, in a way that is incredibly rare to see in C et al. Of course the argument is that other programmers shouldn't be expected to see the problem in the way the original problem solver did.
Re: Forth: The programming language that writes itself
#8This is, I think, the best overview of Forth, and computing as a whole, that I've ever seen.
Re: Forth: The programming language that writes itself
#9Why is it that languages like this don't scale? It's not the first time I see a powerful language that got forgotten. Other examples include SmallTalk and Common Lisp (tiny community). It is because some languages are "too powerful"? What does that say about our industry? That we're still not that advanced of a specie to be able to handle the full power of such languages? I say that because it seems languages that ar…
What I heard is with Forth, basically no 2 environments are alike, but highly customized, meaning every forth programmer creates his own language in the end for his custom needs.
So collaborating is a bit hard like this. The only serious forth programmer that I know, lives alone in the woods doing his things.
So from a aesthetic point of view, I really like the language, but for getting things done, especially in a collaborative way?
But who knows, maybe someone will write the right tools for that to change?
Re: Forth: The programming language that writes itself
#10That is assuming that you, with German grammar, write.