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How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

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Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#101

Post by adsr »

huskyr wrote: post #97
andrewljohnson wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maps-gate, antenna-gate, BS-gate. Every time Apple ships an iDevice, the internet and tech press spin some yarn about a defect in the device, how it isn't a big enough improvement, how it's only smaller and thinner, how it's copying Android. And what happens... every, single, time? The public buys them in droves, and adores them to the last man. Apple Maps is both a strong technical flourish, and it's a bold strategy…

Note that Apple Maps isn't using OpenStreetMap. It's using a combination of a few different sources, mostly TomTom maps.

They are using a combination of different sources, but OpenStreetMap is on of those sources.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#102

Post by microtherion »

kalleboo wrote: post #69
demallien wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of points spring to mind: 1) public transit is not a very big advantage. It is useful only in the handful of US cities that have decent public transport. In Paris, one of the great public transport cities in the world, google still doesn't provide public transport information. In 2012. Apple's solution, to rely on 3rd party devs for this has every chance if providing a solution to iPhone users before Google.…

In my experience, Google Maps' Transit coverage is far far greater than "a handful of U.S. cities". It's worked everywhere I've been in Japan, in Singapore, Hong Kong, Sweden, London, Athens... The beauty of Google's Transit compared to apps maintained by the transit companies themselves is that it supports cross-company travel.

Cross company travel may not be much of an issue in the longer run, as the transit apps are not restricted to be offered by the companies themselves, so the apps offering an integrated view should win out.

Hoever, planning e.g. a trip from London to Paris, with local transit on both sides, may be difficult.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#103

Post by pjzedalis »

bluedanieru wrote: post #96
kalleboo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is nobody knows the truth here. I think the more plausible scenario is that Google wanted something that Apple refused to give (e.g., advertising revenue, user data, etc), making it not so clear cut as "It's XX's fault!"

And, they're releasing a maps app for iOS6 now, anyway.

Will it have turn by turn?

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#104

Post by hatcravat »

demallien wrote: post #48
andreyf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the old Maps app was perpetually stuck in 2007 while Android phones gained 3D views and (much more important) vector maps and turn by turn navigation I don't need or care about 3D view or vector maps or turn-by-turn navigation (although I see how the last one could be useful for a lot of users). I, like most city dwellers, need directions that take public transit into account. I can't believe Apple released an "upgra…

A couple of points spring to mind: 1) public transit is not a very big advantage. It is useful only in the handful of US cities that have decent public transport. In Paris, one of the great public transport cities in the world, google still doesn't provide public transport information. In 2012. Apple's solution, to rely on 3rd party devs for this has every chance if providing a solution to iPhone users before Google.…

Could it not be said that, "Turn-by-turn is not a very big advantage. It is only useful for the handful of people who are too poor not to have a navigation system built into their car?" It seems like the divide between the "iOS 6 maps suck!" crowd and the "iOS 6 maps are awesome!" crowd is whether a private car or public transportation is the primary method of getting around.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#105

Post by Tichy »

pilif wrote: post #85

To be fair though: we could just as well be seeing the results of a contract expiring which to renew Google might have asked for unreasonable terms. Think of it: the iPhone came out 5 years ago and 5 years is a conceivable contract term, just as it was 5 years for the YouTube app. When the maps app was initially put on the phone, Google maps was more or less free. Nowadays it is very expensive (a bit better now, but…

This is already becoming a new stab-in-the-back legend: it's not Apple's fault, it is Google's fault. That seems very unlikely to me, but I guess it will just end how it always ends. Apple fans will keep believing it was Google's fault, Google fans will keep believing it was Apple's fault. (Disclaimer: I am a Google fan).

Also, I wonder if Google really was the only player who could provide a maps app? What about Microsoft/Bing, or Nokia? Nobody wanted to play nice with Apple? And why not?

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#106

Post by microtherion »

eshvk wrote: post #73
ef4 wrote: post #18

The argument that Apple needs their own map for strategic reasons is fine, but it doesn't explain why they needed to ship it before it was any good. I can imagine three explanations: (1) They think they need to start gathering user-generated map content. "Add your business to Apple Maps if you want iPhone users to find it." (2) An internal struggle at Apple. If the supporters of the maps project thought it was at ris…

> (3) They didn't realize quite how bad it was. Just because customers started finding hilarious problems on days one doesn't mean they're trivially easy to find. With enough eyes, all bugs are shallow. As a digression: I wonder if the fact that Apple is located in Palo Alto has anything to do with the lack of support for public transportation in Maps? Typically the south bay has a significantly less emphasis on publ…

Not Palo Alto, Cupertino, and you might be surprised at how many employees commute by means other than their own cars, but yes, I've wondered myself whether transit directions wouldn't have a had a much higher priority if Apple HQ were located in, say, NYC.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#107

Post by 0xABADC0DA »

ender7 wrote: post #24
redthrowaway wrote: post #3

The historical revisionism among the Appleistas is a bit disconcerting. This is not a matter of the "suits" overruling Jobs' "pirates". Apple's current anti-Google jihad is Jobs' baby. This is what he wanted. Now, it's entirely possible that he would never have authorized iOS shipping with a broken maps application, but to suggest that Apple's current direction is anything other than his idea and his impetus is naive…

What worries me is that while Jobs was the one to turn the holy war on, he may have been the only one who could have turned it off again. One of his greatest strengths was his ability to believe something incredibly strongly, but then to change that belief quickly (and, at times, mercurially). Jobs's war on Google would have been hot and nasty, but I think he would have moved on to other things after a while. I worry…

Why do you think this is Apple's fight? The iOS 6 comes out 5 years after the original iPhone. That's a nice round number and it's highly likely that there was a 5 year contract and Google simply refused to license Maps to Apple at any reasonable rate (take for instance people moving to open street maps instead of Google Maps because of the recent rate hikes). Hell they bought a whole company for what $15 billion seemingly just to sue over patents.

You know, maybe Apple is in the wrong here, but without actual evidence I don't think it's safe to say which company is the greater evil.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#108

Post by microtherion »

kamaal wrote: post #95

Apple is no way positioned to harm Google in any way on the longer run. In many ways Apple's products are like what video games, music albums and stereos were in the past. They are products with massive hype, craze and cult following of some kind. Google on the other hand is a massive Innovation factory, churning innovations by the years. No body really is close to them when it comes to search, on line advertising et…

Google on the other hand is a massive Innovation factory, churning innovations by the years. No body really is close to them when it comes to search, on line advertising etc.

I'm wondering a bit about search. The few times I've bothered to use e.g. Bing, I wouldn't say the search quality was noticeably worse, and the emphasis on organic over paid links was... refreshing. When I think back about my search engine switches in the past, they rarely happened because of search algorithm quality per se, but mostly because the previous search engine was getting clogged with ads. That definitely drove me away from lycos, and I seem to remember it also happened with AltaVista.

Google may be unrivaled in online advertising, but to me as a consumer, that is not necessarily a benefit.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#109

Post by bluedanieru »

chmars wrote: post #99
bluedanieru wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, they're releasing a maps app for iOS6 now, anyway.

iOS App Store URL? (There are no indications of a Google Maps app AFAIK but I also hope we will get one soon …)

There was an article on here yesterday that they'd submitted it to the store. I'm not following this too closely other than listening to folks at work bitch about it. (And on HN.)

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#110

Post by simonh »

cageface wrote: post #29
brisance wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's overblown because if Apple were really upset at Samsung they wouldn't be supplying parts for iPhone 5. Remember, according to court filings Apple approached Samsung first to try to settle it before resorting to legal means.

Happening already: The Korean Times is reporting this morning that "Apple has reduced purchases of liquid crystal display (LCD) panels for tablet computers from Samsung Display amid the deepening patent disputes, said a leading market research firm, Friday. Market experts said that the move is aimed at minimizing its reliance on Samsung parts." http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/09/apple-cu...

There have also been reports that Apple offered to purchase exclusive access to some of TSMC's foundry capacity in order to diversify away from Samsung for processor fabrication, but TSMC prefer to keep their options open. Apple's problem is that only Samsung operates at sufficient scale to be able to guarantee delivery in the volumes Apple needs.
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